RE-LAUNCH of CTC Race

[rich.s]

[QUOTE=verytricky;138886]So you have entered then? Or are you the one on the sideline talking bollocks?


No i haven't entered this event , but the last time i did enter i came first in my class, i also held the fasted average speed for an offshore race in the UK
so i feel i have enough of an idea about offshore to make a comment.

I would dearly love to race again , hence i have been keeping a track on the sport via boat mad before i make a commitment.

I have also witnessed how bad lyme bay can get, being thrown around in a 34ft, 4 ton, twin engine boat and having to retire because we were hitting waves that hard the engine sumps cracked,
I have also gone over in a full canopy boat and had to be pulled out by a diver because i was trapped
so with this bit of knowledge i have , i think combined with the fact that there is limited safety cover the smaller single engined boats,ribs included
would better suited doing shorter race

Maybe your passion for the ctc is overriding better judgment, because if there as an incident with a smaller boat in the middle of the open sea it would do terrible damage to the sport and i think one of the questions asked would be , who let these boats out there.

I have nothing against v24s i think there great but to answer your question no i havent entered this year, hopefully next year if there is an event , but to tell the truth in my opinion wanting to do the long race in a boat not suited to the event is BOLLOCKS
but that only my opinion

[Jon Fuller]

Marc, I really do wish it were as simple, and as 'black and White' as you make it sound. Don't forget how you commented on here last year that you were amazed how much aggro it was trying to organize a wee basic out of Drivers Wharf and believe me, the challenges facing this event are gargantuan in comparison.

The 'apparent' secret society is frustrating I know, but I also know that the main thing we are fighting here, is time, or rather a lack of it.
there is a major shortage of officials to run this event, or rather a major shortage of official 'prepared' to run it, the few we have on board are very, very tetchy about safety, litigation etc. All the 'you're in, you're out' stuff has been about creating a formula that ALL the required people can agree to. The situation is tense, and quite frankly very knife edge. If the wranglings had been public, in real time, there would have been the usual response on here, this would have been seen by all & sundry, including the people concered, someone would undoubtably shoot their mouth off and that would be it!, not enough of the required qualified people, no time whatsoever to fix it, and ultimately no race.
It's far from a perfect situation, but to be honest, the 6 or 7 canopy boats are less than a quarter of the fleet, it's not ALL about canopies.

I know and fully understand your feeling of being excluded from various events over recent years, maybe when you speak to other people involved you'll realise we had countless discussions about that very subject, and faught hard to get the point over about the 'continued exclusion' and it's effects. You really, really need to accept that some people are fighting your corner and you kicking up every time, will only alienate those people (as well).

I know you love a fight, but I promise you you're not helping either your situation, or that of the other V24 competitors.

On another subject, you need to cut Richard Strutton some slack!
He has seen first hand all the facets of the canopy story.
He had the horrid experience of popping up from a stuff to find his navigator stone dead next to him with a broken neck. Gone through the proccess of *choosing* to have canopies fitted to his boat as a result (long before they were compulsory) knowing full well he would struggle with the confinement as he really isn't keen, then having his worst nightmare come true with an invertion and tricky exit of the canopy. He really does have the T shirt on both sides of the argument re: capsules.

He's also done some of the fastest times in the rough and fastest times in the calm, (and I do mean fast! including a 105mph race average, at the time, a new record for British offshore across all classes) so don't assume everyone on here is an ameture with little or no experience of 'your issues'.

He's given his opinion on here, and has as much right to have one and share it as anyone else, the difference being, he's actually experienced some of the issues he's comenting on.

BTW, you're not the only one to spend money on preparing your boat specifically for CTC, Mark Pascoe has done loads of mods on HoneyParty and they too were a fag paper away from being excluded, it's not all about you.

Can we move on.

Originally Posted by verytricky

So you have entered then? Or are you the one on the
sideline talking bollocks? I have entered this thing twice and since February been told from week to week that we are in - no we are out - no we are in again - no we are out again - no we are in again - no- we are out again. That is bollocks.

At least with the RB08 the rules changed only once after I had entered!




Being realistic - a 21 foot rib is considered OK. Duh!
being realistic the V24 is canopied which means it is SAFER crossing Lyme Bay!!!

These old farts forget the sort of craft that were in class 1 and class 2 twenty years ago. One odd wave and they'd sink. The V24 is a well made modern design.

...and the V24 is possibly the best rough weather boat out there at the moment under 30 foot.



...there is no need to change the course for canopied boats - they are the same as open boats, just safer if an accident occurs!




And after being told on Friday that the V24's were not going to be allowed to run, by Mike ( Old Man ) and that my entry fee would be returned and that an announcement would be made by Tuesday, I am a little pissed off that on Wednesday evening there is still no official announcement, no return of the entry and the only thing I can see is that our entries have been removed from the organising club webpage.

Mike and Jon may only have had 3 weeks to organise things - but that is no excuse for this. I can not react to innuendo and rumour that I am most definately exluded from the event, I need an official announcement to react on. Do you have any idea how much it costs to get a boat prepared for an event like this, or how much time and planning goes into it? And with the event about a week away I still dont have an official notification I can not run in it, just an unofficial telephone call saying there were problems, and other V24 drivers phoning to confirm over the weekend that it was all over - we were officially excluded.

You would think that one of the things that would have been nailed down was the communication.Yet this is a failure in this instance, and yes it has made me angry! Because it is so easy to get it right, and more difficult to get it wrong.

And all these hidden meetings and secret emails and hushed telephone calls are what is killing the sport. It is a dirty little hidden society - and shining a nice big spotlight on it is what it needs.

Why can we not get a simple and clear and definative answer: Mr X has refused to allow V24's to race because of Y. Then that is something we can react to - disprove theory Y or remove person X - but no - we dont get that curtesy.

[Pennpromo]

Gentlemen,
I simpathise greatly with Marc, (for a change), but I think that we have to keep a sense of reason here.
Consider the facts as I see them:
1). P1 pulled out of Cowes due to lack of entries with a month to go. Too many people hung back intending to enter the week before if the weather looked good or for whatever other reason. This must have been at great cost to them remember, so don't blame them.
2). Mike and his RB08 team have come to the rescue to create an event from the ashes at very, very short notice.
3). The RYA, love them or loathe them, have been kind enough to "tweak" some rules regarding courses, timescales for approvals etc. They are as keen as the competitors to hold arguably the World's most famous powerboat race.
4). The ORC, on behalf of the RYA, have come to the table and been as helpful as possible given limited time and resources. (All volunteers, unpaid, remember).
5). There is a dearth of officials who can run such an event. Their wishes have to be understood and respected if they are to commit their time and expertise.
6). V24's, are, in my experience having done a season in one, very, very capable rough water boats indeed.
7). The UIM, and therefore the RYA, have rules for races that include canopy boats that are more stringent, rightly or wrongly that's just the way the rules have evolved over the years.

So we have a situation here where a couple of the volunteer officials appear to have shown a little worry about running canopy boats with very little safety support. Can you imagine, god forbid, if the boats ran and there was an accident, how a solicitor, (or MIAB), would tear into the organisation of the sport and completely decimate it. On the grounds that a few very experienced officals showed concern but still canopied boats were allowed to run. Its indefensible. Imagine the legal fees and payouts ...
Rich.S, some of you may know, has vaste experience of canopied boats, Marc has lots of experience in his V24, both have differing views, both are valid.
I do think, Marc, that its one of those very unfortunate scenarios where the "team" are really trying to do everything to pull this off, against great odds, in difficult conditions, and you have to bear with them. as soon as they have concrete information you will be one of the first to know I am sure. I can assure you that those who are organising are only too aware of the costs and effort that they don't want to go to waste either.
Sorry for my rant but go back to Martin's first post, "there is so much to be positive about". So lets just all pull together for a change. see you all there .
(P.S. To those that don't know; I have nothing to do with organising the event any more but obviously support them 100% and will be there for safety)

[Mike Lloyd]

Originally Posted by verytricky

So you have entered then? Or are you the one on the sideline talking bollocks? I have entered this thing twice and since February been told from week to week that we are in - no we are out - no we are in again - no we are out again - no we are in again - no- we are out again. That is bollocks.

Why can we not get a simple and clear and definative answer: Mr X has refused to allow V24's to race because of Y. Then that is something we can react to - disprove theory Y or remove person X - but no - we dont get that curtesy.

I give up on you Tricky, for whatever reason you enjoy playing politics on here which is frankly disgraceful. Your post is a load of rubbish and you know it. These are the facts. I agreed with you, via Andy Tremlow last Saturday a way forward for you guys (All of the V24 fleet)to which you agreed during the CTC race on the 23rd and even offered you our facilities in the Yacht Haven including hard standing, crane, and able to berth your boats in the Marina with us, as long as you ran your own event completely separate from ours and ran whatever course you wanted, again, as long as it was nothing to do with us, also, you were welcome to share our facilities. During that conversation with Andy Tremlow, who repeated it to you the same day, that if you guys wanted to run to Torquay then good on you, prove a point if you want to as long as you considered the dangers involved. Again, that was my personal opinion only and not an official one. You apparently readily agreed to that and liked the idea so why you are waiting for an OFFICIAL announcement I don't understand, Andy and the rest aren't, as far as I know anyway. I haven't heard anymore from them so, are you organising your own event or what?

I also agreed to send back your entry fees. I am sorry that has taken so long but I am a trifle busy right now but as I posted last night your cheques are now being posted as we speak. I and others like JF have had to deal with a number of HUGE issues which fortunately are now resolved but it has taken up most of this week. And, at the end of the day it is just me finalising everything, having said that I have to say thanks to John Puddifoot, Nikki and Sheila in the Powerboat Division for their considerable help over the last two days with some of the paper work.

So yes, it has been embarrassing for me and my colleagues that, because of other forces, we had to do a 180 degree on what was originally agreed but you do have your own event now under the V24 club and you can do whatever you want and at the same time be with everyone in the Marina and share in the atmosphere that will generate. If you want to lean on the bar and argue the toss with me and others I can assure you I am a big enough of an "Old Fart" to do just that and give you a run for your money. Someone once said, Jaw Jaw is better than War War.

If you have strong opinions on how this great sport of ours should run and grow, join us, it needs new blood urgently. I will gladly step aside if enough good guys come forward, just watch me go, you wouldn't see me for dust as there are much more pleasant things to do than argue continuously and having to bounce off huge ego's all over the place I can assure you. I might also get some sleep.

The sport is about to change. Great things are coming down the line for Endurance Racing in this country, be a part of it rather than continuously grumbling and being vitriolic in the back ground, but knock that chip off your shoulder first.

See you in Cowes, it will be VERY interesting to see which course the V24's take.
ML.
.

[hunton69]

Rich S
John fuller
Pennpromo
Oldman

You guys couldn't of put it better.

Oldman you have also answered some queries i and i guess many others had with regard to the V24's

[Erin]

Originally Posted by rich.s

So you have entered then? Or are you the one on the sideline talking bollocks?


No i haven't entered this event , but the last time i did enter i came first in my class, i also held the fasted average speed for an offshore race in the UK
so i feel i have enough of an idea about offshore to make a comment.

I would dearly love to race again , hence i have been keeping a track on the sport via boat mad before i make a commitment.

I have also witnessed how bad lyme bay can get, being thrown around in a 34ft, 4 ton, twin engine boat and having to retire because we were hitting waves that hard the engine sumps cracked,
I have also gone over in a full canopy boat and had to be pulled out by a diver because i was trapped
so with this bit of knowledge i have , i think combined with the fact that there is limited safety cover the smaller single engined boats,ribs included
would better suited doing shorter race

Maybe your passion for the ctc is overriding better judgment, because if there as an incident with a smaller boat in the middle of the open sea it would do terrible damage to the sport and i think one of the questions asked would be , who let these boats out there.

I have nothing against v24s i think there great but to answer your question no i havent entered this year, hopefully next year if there is an event , but to tell the truth in my opinion wanting to do the long race in a boat not suited to the event is BOLLOCKS
but that only my opinion

Hi Richard dad (cliff smith) would like to say welcome back to power boat racing.Thank you for commenting on the v24s your advice is welcome but as you know i have raced in class 2, 4 litre and 2 litre and now trying to a promote v24s series. like you self i to have experienced 3 high impacted incidents one in an open boat and two in a canopy, one being a v24. i strongly believe that canopy boats are the future for the safety of power boat racing.
as when i crashed in the open boat i spent a week in hospital and 8 weeks in plaster, and now walk with a limp. After the two crashes in canopy boats i was able to walk away and go to work on monday.

will be joining us in cowes it would be great to talk over old times at the bar, if you fancy a run in a v boat i would gladly take you out and show you the power and the glory.


hope to see you again
cliff smith

ps there is one to rent next year if your interested, it would be great to race with you again.

[ciao!]

Had a chat this afternoon with Fabio.

Here is an image of the second boat he is entering.

http://roundbritainrace.co.uk/fb%20ctc%2008.jpg

[225]

Thats the La Gran Argentina

[ciao!]

Originally Posted by 225

Thats the La Gran Argentina

Fabio likes to see his old boats again!

But good spot!!

[Scand]

Originally Posted by ciao!

Fabio likes to see his old boats again!

But good spot!!

Cool...
is it still rigged with with twin Isotta Fraschini's?

[ciao!]

No clue.

The master never gives me that info!

Lets just enjoy what he does in the Cowes Race!

[PJC]

Hey Rich S, how you doing. Pete @ Cougar

[225]

Originally Posted by Scand

Cool...
is it still rigged with with twin Isotta Fraschini's?

yep, approx top speed of 80mph

[verytricky]

Originally Posted by OldMan

I give up on you Tricky, for whatever reason you enjoy playing politics on here which is frankly disgraceful. ....

Whatever reason? Thinks... Possibly the reason is the banning of my class of raceboat? Possibly that is the reason why I am pissed? You dont think mayby?

Who is Frankly?

And as for disgraceful, should we delve a bit into your handling of the RB08 and such things? We find plenty disgraceful there - just disgraceful with other peoples money!

And could you please stop giving up on me. You can only do that once, and you have already done that previously...

Originally Posted by OldMan

Your post is a load of rubbish and you know it. These are the facts. I agreed with you, via Andy Tremlow last Saturday a way forward for you guys...blah blah blah... During that conversation with Andy Tremlow, who repeated it to you the same day, ...blah blah blah.... You apparently readily agreed to that and liked the idea so why you are waiting for an OFFICIAL announcement I don't understand, Andy and the rest aren't, as far as I know anyway. blah blah blah....

This goes to your integrity. The fact that I do not think you have any. Perhaps I can excuse your memory lapse due to your old age, perhaps I should just call you a liar?

1) You phoned me on Saturday, told me the news, told me you were looking for a way forward, and *PROMICED* me that there would be an official announcement on Tuesday as to the final status.

2) I called Andy - and told him. He called you. He later called me and said we should organise our own ralley. Andy said you were in favour of this. You confirm that you discussed things with Andy and he then spoke to me. How is this becomming your notification to me?

3) I do not trust you. You have changed your story previously, and I wanted an official clarification that we could not race. I imagine a senario where I turn up for our ralley and get told that I cant do it by the RYA, or that I get told I was never actually out of the race, but missed drivers briefing or some other slippery nasty evil man thing. See trust. You dont get any from me. That is why I wanted the official announcement.

4) From the point on Saturday when you phoned me, there was no further contact between me and you. My discussion with Andy to create a ralley as a fallback does not remove your obligation to tell me, who had properly entered and paid for your event, that I was no longer allowed to run. You promiced the announcement by Tuesday. Whatever discussions I had with anyone else about anything else does not mean I have official notification. Because there was none.

Andy was not your representitive when he discussed a ralley with me. You left things in the air - no official outcome - just a promice to have it resolved by Tuesday. Any contingency plans put into place by V24 drivers do not constitute notification from the organiser that we were excluded does it?

Originally Posted by OldMan

I also agreed to send back your entry fees. I am sorry that has taken so long .

( should have stopped there, but blah blah blah for a couple of lines.. )

Originally Posted by OldMan

So yes, it has been embarrassing for me and my colleagues that, because of other forces, we had to do a 180 degree on what was originally agreed but I am so terribly sorry that I was involved with this messing you around and I appologise.

Oh - sorry - that quote is not actually what you wrote, but I guess that is OK to take your words, add a little and quote them as your words - as you clearly took what I wrote in an email and altered it and forwarded it to others say 'this is what Marc thinks' - when clearly it was not.... Hmmmn - Nasty nasty little man. I'll have Ana sort you out. She'll kick your sorry little ass all over Cowes. I'd do it myself, but I would feel bad hitting an old man like yourself even if you deserve it. Ana has no such feelings - you deserve it you should get it.


I am leaving this happy little thread as it just annoys the shyte out of me. I will ask my brief to read up on any replies you may have, and see what he thinks of them.

[Jon Fuller]

OK Marc, if this is how you want do it that's fine, I give up on you too.

I'm not prepared to stick my neck out for you, as I've done on numerous occasions, to have you react in this way with the people who ARE trying to help!..You have let me down.
You now have no allies on the organising side at all. Well done & good luck.

[skull666]

tricky cut your canopy off

[Jon Fuller]

With little more than a week to run before this event, I will not allow this thread to be sabotaged or de-railed.

[TimB-C]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

With little more than a week to run before this event, I will not allow this thread to be sabotaged or de-railed.

Then remove Skull666 inflamatry comment pls

[skull666]

i put a canopy on ian blackers b28 to meet the rules all i am saying is if tricky wantsto race change his boat to meet the rules he an allways change it back.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by TimB-C

Then remove Skull666 inflamatry comment pls

I don't believe it was intended as an inflammatory comment.