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Old 22-05-2010, 10:30 PM   #41
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I bet there are many competitors who just want to go racing for the love of it,rather than be hamstrung with rules that can be restrictive when looking at a lot of craft that are affordable,safe and competitive but outside the rules.
So there will come a point when excluding say lightweight U.S. hulls will just leave us with revamped older craft to keep the flag flying,and as they say `incorporate new technology or die.`
Flying Fish..... this is already happening, our team had entered Ireland, paid our deposit then got kicked out because the boat is too light.... deposit lost & a marathon team well cheesed off with Marathon racing..... this class has already lost its way by having such rigid rules....

There can't be a cheaper way to compete in class A than a race ready Fountain for £100k, we are now looking for a class that races for fun and allows people to enjoy themselves... a bit like Marathon 2008/2009

Adam's idea's are valid & the future once these rules expire at the end of 2011
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Old 22-05-2010, 11:02 PM   #42
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Flying Fish..... this is already happening, our team had entered Ireland, paid our deposit then got kicked out because the boat is too light.... deposit lost & a marathon team well cheesed off with Marathon racing..... this class has already lost its way by having such rigid rules....
Now come on Dean, it doesn't work like that. You had the rules in front of you BEFORE you ordered the boat. if you had it built below the weight, you did it deliberately. Also, you can't have been 'kicked out' because no one has weighed you yet, you must have decided not to go through with the race.(in a boat that you had built below the weight) Knock the rules by all means, but you must tell it how it is.
The weight rules existed before you ordered, how can it possibly be anyones fault but yours if you order a boat that doesn't fit the rules? Or did you, like Buzzi, just expect to get it all changed to suit you?

I wanna see some numbers of all these under weight boats, until there are numbers in black & white, it's all just talk and as we know, powerboat racers are f*cking good at talk.
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Old 22-05-2010, 11:35 PM   #43
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The boat was not ordered for Marathon... I have not had it specially built, it is a boat that I already owned,

I owned it in 08....when it met the rules.It was not raced so it is not grandfathered. the boat weighs 4100Kg & is UIM measurement 38ft, you can do the maths, I weighed the boat & sent the data through to the Irish crew who initially accepted the entry as a 'fun' entry but then emailed me to say that it was kicked out unless we added the weight, we tried the weight & the boat did not work.

This boat is a perfect Marathon boat, Built in 2005, Cheap, efficient & plentiful... also makes a great leisure boat & could easily take the scalp of a 1 million pound super boat in class A. It makes great speed considering the engines are so small.This is not the new boat!... just a boat that anybody could own... an off the shelfer

As far as getting the rules changed to suit myself.... that is a joke!!... You know that we have spent a lot of time building a new boat that meets the new rules perfectly.... it suits me to keep them just as they are.... but this will not be best for the future of Marathon. The rules need to be more inclusive of standard boats including the Goldfish.... a star of 2008

We can debate this all night.. the simple fact is we have a solid boat, the budget & the will to go racing but could not go.... I would like to know how many others want to race but can't automatically fit in to the classes... lets face it if we had measured the boats at RB08 some boats could have struggled but the race was ran with an excellent spirit, this is what I am posting here to protect not to get in to a big discussion on rules.

I am looking to see what we can do for RB11 to make sure that we are not limited to the grandfathered fleet... we want as many new faces as possible, with the event ran in the spirit of 2008
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Old 22-05-2010, 11:45 PM   #44
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38' in B class needs to weigh 4177 kilos, you've got the wrong engines.

with 525s it would be perfect.
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Old 22-05-2010, 11:48 PM   #45
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My mistake
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Old 22-05-2010, 11:50 PM   #46
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whats it got? 600's?
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Old 22-05-2010, 11:56 PM   #47
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Yeah... lovely lazy power and not much worse on fuel than the 525's whilst not being as highly strung

Shame that my hull is fine for class B (525's 90mph) but too light for class A (600's 95mph)... Lol

Anyway.... See you all at CTC.....
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Old 23-05-2010, 12:14 AM   #48
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Yeah... lovely lazy power and not much worse on fuel than the 525's whilst not being as highly strung

Shame that my hull is fine for class B (525's 90mph) but too light for class A (600's 95mph)... Lol

Anyway.... See you all at CTC.....
And even more of a shame, and desparately unfair that you cant run a pair of 1500hp Sterlings, they'd be very lazy, and it'd run 150+ how unfair eh. I'll have a word with the RYA for you, sure it can be sorted. just a case of being flexible.
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Old 23-05-2010, 12:26 AM   #49
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The reason for me asking what motors is that I had always assumed that Supercharged Petrols were something that marathon was trying to avoid (as such) beacuse there was very little way of achieving parity betwen the boats in said classes.

oops, I think JF made the point I was trying to a tad batter.
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Old 23-05-2010, 12:35 AM   #50
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chaos, the old 'hidden text for google / google ads' is as old as the hills mate!
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Old 23-05-2010, 12:42 AM   #51
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its been there about 2 years ya nob ......................... and by virtue of the fact its hidden; means i'd totaly forgotten about it.

cheer up, ya grumpy old tw4t. You aint trying to make Boatmad a fun free zone are ya?
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Old 23-05-2010, 08:30 AM   #52
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Jon,what I can`t get my head round,is that many months ago when Peter Unwin was talking about his lightweight Hunton (albeit not for racing),it just showed what can be achieved nowadays.With the target min wt set for say a Cinzano type boat,it seems that if a new design were to meet that target it would be obliged to build without using new technology.I can`t believe that say `Banana shark` sets out to build a boat that will not incorporate the latest design thinking to achieve min wt,which if progress is to be made could well be under the rule limit,just using old tin construction as a yardstick, which I know is on the limit.If it doesn`t it shows we are in a backwater.
The problem is as you can imagine,designers will be reluctant to give out wt info,and why should they,so when the boat is weighed for the ruling the true construction wt can be lost in the all up lightweight.
When those rules were formulated,how many trustworthy wts were obtained to set the min wt,and what manufacturers were used.Was the fountain `Blast Off` weighed to see if that met the min wt without ballast.Sorry to highlight a few sore points,but once one digs it`s only a matter of time before the nasties appear.
The thing is,as in the past,as boat design evolves the rules have been modified,but the classes left the same,so it catches up with you in the end.
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Old 23-05-2010, 10:25 AM   #53
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Boatracing - a strange new world...

I´ve been racing motorcycles for 35 years so this boatracing world is something new for me. And strange
In motorcycleracing you have simple regulations: Displacement, weight, number of cylinders and number of gears.
Depending on the technical development there has been changes in displacement and weight when going from twostroke to fourstroke.
But thats about it and the governing body, FIM, has communicated the rulechanges at least two years before new regulation.

I think that the "Marathon Rules" is a very good thing for boatracing.
Jon Fuller made a good job as one of the forces behind the rules even if a certain Italian guy got a little bit to much influence in the end..

I also had opinions about the rules but the rules are there so lets adapt to them.
In my case it meant that the new boat will have FPT-560,s instead of Ilmor 725,s. The 42 UIM-ft hull only weighs 1800 kg(alu) so with the Ilmors
it would have needed more than 1000 kg of ballast for Class B.
With the FPT-560,s and ZF300-2-step/ASD8L-drives the weight will be just above the limit for Class C-Sport(Thanks Fabio!.)

See you at the races!!
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Old 23-05-2010, 11:14 AM   #54
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CUV?
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Old 23-05-2010, 12:32 PM   #55
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What I can’t understand is why the rules now do not allow boats that proved their worth in RB08. Seems to be a step backwards. As for the “check book racing” argument, I think the current boats in build for the Marathon series proves that the front running teams necessarily – good or bad – need to be well financed. In addition, the boat is only one part of a winning recipe, and having the necessary support (mechanics, trailers, beer) is also costly in order to be at the front in events like the round Britain races. And let’s not forget that the entry fees from the big boats play a significant role in financing these fantastic events.

The best solution would of course be to follow the steps of Mikko, Dean, etc, and build a boat to suit the rules. The thing is though, that we want a boat that can be used on a regular basis leisurely, and for us this means a fuel efficient, well designed and light boat that in addition gives us a slight erection every time we look at it. We simply can’t spend thousands of £££ on a boat built purely for a few races. I know it’s not a big deal, and I’m sure the RB races will easily attract enough boats with the current rules without us, but for us it is a shame as we would really like to take part.

More precisely, we know what boat we want. I know that at least two other Norwegian teams want the same boat. There is evidently already a UK team that has a Goldfish 36 RIB (not one of the 2 boats from RB08, so no grandfathering here…) and that has entered this in Round Ireland, RB11 and RB12. As far as I can understand (which isn’t always that far) this boat needs around 700 kg to meet the requirements, so I’m guessing they are in for a nasty surprise.

In RB08 three Norwegian teams showed up in Goldfish RIBs. A lot of skepticism regarding the claimed speed and durability of these boats was evident beforehand, but I like to think that they contributed quite a bit to making RB08 the success it was. The fact that these boats no longer are eligible is to us a mystery, but I accept that this is our problem and I fully respect the amount of work that has been put into making the rules as fair as possible. I just think that you are missing out on a great opportunity to attract a new breed of racers and boats for what is – in my opinion – the best offshore racing series around.
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Old 23-05-2010, 12:39 PM   #56
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In Summary it looks like -

We all agree marathon is a fantastic class

Nobody has suggested any rule changes

It looks like the classes a perfect in terms of hull length/type & engine cc

The weights look a little high & are making it difficult for new teams to enter Marathon

It looks like a weight reduction of around 10% on the current Kg/m would help solve this or at least reduce the amount of weight required without allowing in the 'flimsy boats'

As I see it a great set of rules were drawn up a few years ago & with a tweak here and there should make them future proof

Any comments ?? -
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Old 23-05-2010, 12:50 PM   #57
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The best solution would of course be to follow the steps of Mikko, Dean, etc, and build a boat to suit the rules. The thing is though, that we want a boat that can be used on a regular basis leisurely, and for us this means a fuel efficient, well designed and light boat that in addition gives us a slight erection every time we look at it. We simply can’t spend thousands of £££ on a boat built purely for a few races. I know it’s not a big deal, and I’m sure the RB races will easily attract enough boats with the current rules without us, but for us it is a shame as we would really like to take part.


The boat will be used for pleasure also. Five seats, trolling valves on the 2-step gearboxes maybe even a bow thruster .
And...the cost will be MUCH less than a new Goldfish 36
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Old 23-05-2010, 12:52 PM   #58
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Any comments ?? -
I have one; How the heck are we going to beat you in your new boat?! How bout a new rule stating that "organizers cannot enter in the races"?
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Old 23-05-2010, 12:53 PM   #59
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CUV?
No,no! Too antique...
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Old 23-05-2010, 01:00 PM   #60
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Lol

I am not actually entering RB11..... the boat will be there but running for Help the Heroes charity.... seats for sale to the highest bidders
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