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Old 19-07-2009, 11:07 PM   #81
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Can I ask a stupid question? You have just told Roofer that there is no HP or number of engine limits for the CPC. So are you saying that if I enter a 25ft boat with over 1500 HP that I can enter this Race?
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Old 20-07-2009, 08:49 AM   #82
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Can I ask a stupid question? You have just told Roofer that there is no HP or number of engine limits for the CPC. So are you saying that if I enter a 25ft boat with over 1500 HP that I can enter this Race?
Yes. But you will be checked over pretty thoroughly by the Scruitineers to ensure the boat is safe. We want people to have fun but not to be stupid. Anyway, what’s the boat and what’s the HP? Just for interest. I am sure you are aware that this is a monohull race only!

For those of you who are about to scream, "what’s wrong with cats", we might, and I say again might, look at that next year for the CPC race as a separate class.

The problem we have is that if we get too many boats taking part next year the RYA have threatened, perhaps I should say "advised" that we would have to have two starts as 50+ boats on a start line is too dangerous apparently! We did have 38 boats last year and there was never an inkling of a problem because on a Saturday morning at 10am in the Western Solent there isn't another boat in sight! But of course we now have "elf & safety" and litigation by competitors to contend with, but that’s a whole different subject for another day
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Old 20-07-2009, 09:39 AM   #83
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How on earth would he be aware? It doesn't state in either the advance instructions or the entry form that the CPC race is mono only. It states that it is an RYA basic race, which includes ANY boat.

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I am sure you are aware that this is a monohull race only!
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Old 20-07-2009, 10:46 AM   #84
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How on earth would he be aware? It doesn't state in either the advance instructions or the entry form that the CPC race is mono only. It states that it is an RYA basic race, which includes ANY boat.
What point are you trying to make Matt? The Honda fleet is mono, the ORDA fleet that is racing is mono, all of the sportsboat fleet last year was mono so I would have thought that everyone would gather and know by now that the CPC race is for monos only.

However, I should have remembered that one should never assume in this sport. So you will have to forgive me if I have slipped up and not actually mentioned that particular point in the advance racing instructions. Interestingly enough although these instructions have been checked by several people, no one else has picked it up either. Just goes to show, no ones perfect.
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Old 20-07-2009, 11:00 AM   #85
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Just out of interest, why is the CPC race mono only? It's not a Marathon race.

I would think the numbers wanting to be entering cats would be small, but can't see why one would stop those who would like to run one, after all, it's a 70 mile basic event.. Matt, Blufin, Larby, etc, etc. Can't be safety grounds if a 1500hp P25 is allowed. Can't be canopy grounds if a V24 is allowed.
I would have thought this taster/basic would be open to most, if not all-comers. (Alhallowes had cat entries) as to quote a recent ORC line, "The more boats on the water principle applies".
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Old 20-07-2009, 11:08 AM   #86
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I was under the impression that a multihull could run in the CPC. Having had a re-read no mention is made of CPC . Assuming you could.
A tad abstract as if there was a multihull running the championship could be decided on who was or was not allowed to race at Cowes. An academic point for this year, but think about it for next? I’m surprised that national points status has been awarded for class IIIC & IIIB which have multihulls within the class structure, now obviously not allowed to run
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Old 20-07-2009, 11:09 AM   #87
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Very strange decision and although agreed not many cats around at the moment - still strikes me as another backward step for racing.
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Old 20-07-2009, 11:16 AM   #88
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Sod the cats, I'm feverioushly working away trying to work out how to wedge 1500 hp into the revenger now we've got that agreed
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Old 20-07-2009, 11:35 AM   #89
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So if C-12 or C-27 had been running this year and/or Matt had his Hydrolift out, there would be a problem....
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Old 20-07-2009, 11:43 AM   #90
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So if C-12 or C-27 had been running this year and/or Matt had his Hydrolift out, there would be a problem....
I believe Matt was intending to do the CPC in the Hydrolift.
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Old 20-07-2009, 11:43 AM   #91
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Mike,
After having read the published documentation which stated the CPC runs under RYA Basic rules, I was planning to enter my cat into the CPC, subject to some positive test runs over the next week.

If someone turns up with a cat (you probably wouldn't know whether it was a cat from the details on the entry form) and been excluded you could be open to legal action. Please understand by "you", I mean the race organisers who you represent in this discussion, and not you personally.

While I think it's generally understood that there's a desire to minimise paperwork, you've GOT to make sure the paperwork that's published is correct as it forms the basis of a legal contract.

So I have 2 points:
a) It's yet another nail in the coffin for the sport by being exclusive rather than inclusive.
b) The published race documentation is incorrect.

Finally, I'm a bit shocked by the tone of your response.
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Old 20-07-2009, 11:52 AM   #92
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Read the disclaimer on the entry form
You will need to apply in writing Matt for the elegibility of the hydrolift.
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Old 20-07-2009, 11:56 AM   #93
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Read the disclaimer on the entry form
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Old 20-07-2009, 12:07 PM   #94
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I just love Disclaimers Keeps us in Business
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Old 20-07-2009, 12:09 PM   #95
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Not quite, that disclaimer's pretty disposable because I "nearly" sent my entry form in without a second thought about eligibility for a basic race (why would you, it's supposed to be a basic race!), so the questions wouldn't have been asked.

And once an entry is accepted (both the form, and the cash), does this move beyond the "right to refuse entry" as entry is then already accepted? Pash?
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Old 20-07-2009, 12:12 PM   #96
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Small Print Matt... it's all about the Small Print

Although not a bad disclaimer I must say
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Old 20-07-2009, 12:21 PM   #97
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Not quite, that disclaimer's pretty disposable because I "nearly" sent my entry form in without a second thought about eligibility for a basic race (why would you, it's supposed to be a basic race!), so the questions wouldn't have been asked.

And once an entry is accepted (both the form, and the cash), does this move beyond the "right to refuse entry" as entry is then already accepted? Pash?
As the first half hour of my services is free I would say that under normal circumstances you would have a reasonable case against the organisers, but, in the disclaimer "All Competitors agree to save harmless and keep indemnified the Sponsors, the RYA, UIM, British Powerboat Racing Club Ltd, The BPRC Event Management Limited, The Organising Committee, all and every individual, bodies etc. concerned with the running of this event from and against all and any actions, claims, costs, expenses and demands in respect of all their team members, boat and equipment (as the case may be) howsoever caused, arising out of, or in connection with the entry of their taking part in this race,"

On the flip side, you wont have taken part if your entry once accepted is subsequently denied...
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Old 20-07-2009, 12:23 PM   #98
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Mike,
After having read the published documentation which stated the CPC runs under RYA Basic rules, I was planning to enter my cat into the CPC, subject to some positive test runs over the next week.

If someone turns up with a cat (you probably wouldn't know whether it was a cat from the details on the entry form) and been excluded you could be open to legal action. Please understand by "you", I mean the race organisers who you represent in this discussion, and not you personally.

While I think it's generally understood that there's a desire to minimise paperwork, you've GOT to make sure the paperwork that's published is correct as it forms the basis of a legal contract.

So I have 2 points:
a) It's yet another nail in the coffin for the sport by being exclusive rather than inclusive.
b) The published race documentation is incorrect.

Finally, I'm a bit shocked by the tone of your response.
Here we go again. The reason I'm getting out of organising powerboat events after Cowes next year is because of the threat of litigation if we make a mistake. It's becoming dangerous. I really don't think other race orgainsers realise just how dangerous. One small mistake and some idiot will go for it and sue the orgainsers. It's already happened to us as everyone knows.That is what will eventually drive the nail in the coffin as far as we are concerened, not barring one or two boats.

Everyone wants their own way and if they don't get it they threaten litigation. Well sod that for a game of monkeys. This sport is supposed to be fun and it's rapidly turning into something else as far as I am concerned.

As for my tone Matt, I wasn't aware there was one, just telling it as it is. Also, I did apologise and I wasn't being sarcastic either.

Even though there are only a few weeks to go I will talk to the powers that be to see if Cats will be allowed to run in the CPC race.
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Old 20-07-2009, 12:29 PM   #99
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as an outsider i really cant see why cats cant be allowed........ i would like to say that picking the phone up and asking a question is much better than now reading small print and seeing what come back people may have,and now everyone on this forum wonders why sometimes powerboat racing is a struggle
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Old 20-07-2009, 12:31 PM   #100
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Here we go again. The reason I'm getting out of organising powerboat events after Cowes next year is because of the threat of litigation if we make a mistake. It's becoming dangerous. I really don't think other race orgainsers realise just how dangerous. One small mistake and some idiot will go for it and sue the orgainsers. It's already happened to us as everyone knows.That is what will eventually drive the nail in the coffin as far as we are concerened, not barring one or two boats.

Everyone wants their own way and if they don't get it they threaten litigation. Well sod that for a game of monkeys. This sport is supposed to be fun and it's rapidly turning into something else as far as I am concerned.

As for my tone Matt, I wasn't aware there was one, just telling it as it is. Also, I did apologise and I wasn't being sarcastic either.

Even though there are only a few weeks to go I will talk to the powers that be to see if Cats will be allowed to run in the CPC race.
ML.
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I don’t think Matt was threatening Litigation Mike, the question of Legal Action is always a thorny one that is why there is insurance available for Committee Members against such a course of events.

IMHO the problem is routed in the amount of money prospective competitors are spending on building/refurbishing their boats based on rules which are published, then re-published, and then revised - it all gets very confusing. Problems could all be solved by sticking to the "Published Rules"

We are all human and mistakes do get made that’s why errata pages are published to be appended to the already issued rules.

But chaps lets just get on with doing the racing and not get entrenched - Please
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