Phoney Phantoms (in this case Chaudron)

Jonny how many 31's did Steve build? that sure was a nice boat...outboard or inboard power?
 
The process of building the balsa boats is more labour intensive, so they're more expensive.

Dunno about 'The Edge', I always thought the lightest/strongest P21 built was 'Here on Business', which was again for one of Neils customers.

I understand from Neil, that it was a one-off lay up, without any budget restrictions.

It's Neils favourite P21, had a very special 2.5 EFI, and ran 93mph (a genuine 93 that is)

Neil took it to windermere one year, and cleaned up in the endurance race.

jf
 
chaudron said:
Jonny how many 31's did Steve build? that sure was a nice boat...outboard or inboard power?

only one!

It was commisioned by a team (Alistair Kendon & the Baldwin twins), who paid for all the design, plug and tool work.

It raced in Class II with a single Kiekhaefer Aeromarine 650hp big block, and #3 Speedmaster drive.

The mould was destroyed about ten years ago, the boat 'WARLORD' still remains somewhere in the UK.

This all happened around 1982
 

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Jonny you sure have the best boat pics around, the pic of that 31 is awesome
 
There was also a one off 31 that was a stretched 26 I think, this would have been extremely narrow, like the 21/25, which are something like a 6' beam, as apposed to the 7' of the 28'.
 
what does Steve say about the power for the boats, is inboard better than outboard or vice-versa, how does the phantom run with triple outboards?
 
Johnny Boat Dude said:
And you can take the piss n stuff too :D


:hugegrin: thanks that's cheerd me up for the day! Time to go and break something on the water!

But the kapitan is right you can learn stuff here! I have learned to tak ethe piss a lot better since i have been on this Forum!

I have never been on a Phantom boat ( I wasn't special enuff to be invited on to Leviathon) but i must admit they do 'look' right i can understand ( but not condone) why thay are spalshed. I'd love to buy a phantom evo one day!.
 
listen now after that we have been "exchanging blows" on the forum (joking), if at any time you are in Malta I want you to phone me so I can take you around on the Chaudron, would also love at least to see your beautiful boat if I am in the UK
 
Steve likes outboard power, mainly because of their power to weight ratio.

The 28 with triples was a little stern heavy, and because the outer motors are so far apart, they're a long way up the deadrise, and at high speed they aren't deep enough in the water, also, the paddle wheel effect is not ballanced with triples.

A pair of 2.5 efi's, or 300X's bolted straight on the transom would most likely be his choice, were he doing it now.
 
Captain Chaos said:
Jonny, I think its also fair to say that this may not be the ONLY method with which to produce a successfull boat :duell:

Unless you're talking about a displacement craft, weight saving is everthing!

Why on earth would all the race boat builders, right up to the likes of Tencara, spend massive amounts of money building in carbon fibre composites and the likes, if you could just build it in regular glass, three times the weight and indistructable, for a fraction of the cost?

It's coz weight matters in a performance boat, calm or rough!...it's simple physics, water is 800 times thicker than air, dragging a heavy boat through it, deeper in the water than need be (due to excess weight) will be slow!
 
chaudron said:
Jonny you sure have the best boat pics around, the pic of that 31 is awesome

It's taken from 'Searace'.

This is a book EVERY self respecting powerboat enthusiast MUST have!

There's a link on the main home page to John Crouse's website, alternatively:

Click Here
 
Maybe 'The Edge' is the second lightest!!! It too has a highley tuned 2.5EFI built by Neil but I'm not sure how quick it is. Its a white boat trimmed in yellow and blue. The hull was built late 90's I think. Is there a chance someone could have re-named 'Here on Business' or have you seen it recently. 'The Edge' has been around weston since early 2003.
 
Johnny Boat Dude said:
Is there a chance someone could have re-named 'Here on Business'

There's every chance I guess, could well be the same boat.
 
Jonny I agree that weight saving is very important, in fact I had my boat stringers and bulkheads built with Baltek Decolite panels which do save a lot of weight (50% of wood) and are very strong and stiff. The only thing I said was that if a boat is too light it will struggle against another boat of the same size in rough waters...the other very important element is balance, ie how the weight is distributed which is perhaps more important than the actual weight itself, from what we see over here
 
chaudron said:
how the weight is distributed which is perhaps more important than the actual weight itself, from what we see over here

That is my point exactly, a boat that is light, and strong, with a large bow ballast tank for shifting the C of G when needed, has the best of all worlds.

The trick, is having the knowledge/knowhow to build a very light boat that has the strength and stiffness to take 'Offshore' conditions at racing speeds...and yes, we do get rough seas here in the UK also.
 
chaudron said:
I And also Steve Baker did not build all his boats alike, he built light boats and he built heavier boats, so he also must have seen the merit in building a different boat to suit different needs.

Money!..It costs more to build light. In both materials and labour.

quite simply, if you have the budget, you can have a light boat, if you haven't you can't.

The only exception might be ski racing boats, which I know little about, but I would have thought that the same rule applies, have it light, and have a massive bow tank.

The heavier the boat is, the harder it will be to shift the C of G with ballast, whereas a light boat will require less ballast to achieve the weight shift.
 
Yep, in ski racing heavier can help because more boat in the water helps to flatten the water out for the skier. If you look at Cyes boat it has a bow and belly tank so you can load it up with water and make it heavy, put the large tabs down and give the skier some flat water. Cyes boat also has a step at the front which is unusual as they're normally at the back but when running like this more of the bottom of the boat is in the water so the step helps to speed it up but without the loss of grip at the back when cornering normally asosiated with stepped hulls. All you need then is loads of power to push you along at a decent rate of knots. The Bernico F2 I believe was actually desinged specifically as a ski race boat.
 
with a full cabin phantom i think it might be difficult to have a forward ballast tank as a lot of headroom would be lost, no problem for a race boat though without a cabin. do you know what layup Steve was using for the 28 and what type of resin?
 
actually the roughest sea encountered in Powerboat P1 this year was the UK Grand Prix in Brighton, that was a tough race with huge waves
 

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