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06-08-2009, 09:19 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Country: UK. Essex
Location: Mayland
Occupation: Train Driver
Boat name: Un-named as yet
Boat make: Phantom 21
Engines: yam 225
Cruising area: Thames estuary Black water/crouch
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mayland
Posts: 373
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Power difference
Have been wondering about the power difference between engines. This has proberbly been covered before, had a search but couldnt find what i was looking for. So here goes.
Is there much difference between a 200hp Mariner and a 200hp Mercury of the same years, even though both built by the same factory?
And is there a significant difference in performance between a 2.4 200hp and a 2.5 200hp of said engines?
Thirdly as Mercury engines are not renowned for their high reving but are the most common it seems. What is a 200hp performance compared to a 200hp of another make such as Suzuki, Yam, Evinrude, Johnson etc. This is just out of curiosity.
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06-08-2009, 09:55 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Country: uk
Location: barrow in furness cumbria
Occupation: letting agent
Boat name: fantastic
Boat make: phantom 18
Engines: mercury 2.4
Cruising area: walney
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: barrow in furness cumbria
Posts: 237
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this will be good as i was thinking the same my self as i have tryed engines but all never been the same age so cant really say
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06-08-2009, 10:04 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Country: UK. Essex
Location: Mayland
Occupation: Train Driver
Boat name: Un-named as yet
Boat make: Phantom 21
Engines: yam 225
Cruising area: Thames estuary Black water/crouch
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mayland
Posts: 373
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Well reason i was wondering was because pre 1990/1 mariner/mercs where 2.4 and after 90/91 they became 2.5, so wondered if the 100cc made a difference. Then wondered how the mercs/mariner's compared in power against other makes of the same sized engines, power to weight ratios etc
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07-08-2009, 12:55 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Country: Ireland
Location: Dublin
Occupation: Boatbuilder
Boat make: Hydrostream V-king, 650SS OCR ,Ring 21, Ring 18, Phantom 18.
Engines: 300Hp Mercury 2.4, 130 Yamaha, Bridgeport EFI, XR6, Merc 200.
Cruising area: Malahide, Dublin
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_B
Well reason i was wondering was because pre 1990/1 mariner/mercs where 2.4 and after 90/91 they became 2.5, so wondered if the 100cc made a difference. Then wondered how the mercs/mariner's compared in power against other makes of the same sized engines, power to weight ratios etc
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It's not as simple as 100cc, the 2.4 was piston ported and the 2.5 behind the liner, huge gains in power and torque. Totally different animal
I had a modified 2.4 bridgeport (about 280Hp with tight heads) on our 21 Cat that ran a best of just over 90mph and replaced it with a 225 promax and ran same speed first day out!
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07-08-2009, 07:57 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Location: GOLDEN MILE
Boat name: LILY THE PINK AND TERMINATOR 11
Boat make: PHANTOM 21 AND 20
Engines: 2.5 EFI X 2
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: GOLDEN MILE
Posts: 2,475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_B
Thirdly as Mercury engines are not renowned for their high reving but are the most common it seems. What is a 200hp performance compared to a 200hp of another make such as Suzuki, Yam, Evinrude, Johnson etc. This is just out of curiosity.
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High performance Mercury engines usually rev to 7500 . My 2.5 efi with A48 ecu can rev to 11500 . None of the above engines apart from the Evinrude Etecs can live with a Mercury performance wise.
Most standard Merc and Mariner 150/175/200 engines can be made to rev to 7500 quite cheaply. Remove the 40 amp electrics and skim the heads to increase compression and you'd be amazed at the difference.
By the way a Mariner 200 is the same as a Merc 200 apart from the paint colour.
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07-08-2009, 10:12 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Country: UK. Essex
Location: Mayland
Occupation: Train Driver
Boat name: Un-named as yet
Boat make: Phantom 21
Engines: yam 225
Cruising area: Thames estuary Black water/crouch
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mayland
Posts: 373
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Excellent. These are the answers i was looking for to satisfy a few nagging questions.
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07-08-2009, 10:19 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Country: UK. Essex
Location: Mayland
Occupation: Train Driver
Boat name: Un-named as yet
Boat make: Phantom 21
Engines: yam 225
Cruising area: Thames estuary Black water/crouch
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mayland
Posts: 373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydrostream
It's not as simple as 100cc, the 2.4 was piston ported and the 2.5 behind the liner, huge gains in power and torque. Totally different animal
I had a modified 2.4 bridgeport (about 280Hp with tight heads) on our 21 Cat that ran a best of just over 90mph and replaced it with a 225 promax and ran same speed first day out!
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So the 2.5 is a far superior engine than the 2.4 power wise? That would make sense with the speeds people have quoted from their 200hp to the speed i was getting. Obviously they where running 2.5's as opposed to my 2.4 engine.
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07-08-2009, 03:55 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Country: netherlands
Location: Mijdrecht/holland
Occupation: truck repair
Interests: fast boats/porches
Boat name: bernico cat
Boat make: bernico 26 cat 2x 2,5,s
Engines: merc,s 2,5 EFI,s
Cruising area: ijselmeer
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mijdrecht/holland
Posts: 382
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What is mentioned before here is the long powerband these mercury,s have ,you cannot compare this to an engine with a shorter powerband ,especially on a lighter performance boat .
for example if a mercury 2,5 EFI 260 hp /280 ,rev up to 8000 rpm ,and 1,87 ratio compare to a 3,0 L or more omc or suzuki/yamaha with about the same power the merc can start with a 24 pitch prop to achieve 80 mph on a certain hull,the other brands with the shorter powerband have to start at least with a 26 or bigger to come close to the same speed/propellorspeed ,but suffer because of the high pitch during the run through the powerband ,even if they have more torque low and midrange ,you cannot compare with that long powerband ,and offcoure the low weight from such an engine like a high perf merc.
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07-08-2009, 05:05 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Country: UK. Essex
Location: Mayland
Occupation: Train Driver
Boat name: Un-named as yet
Boat make: Phantom 21
Engines: yam 225
Cruising area: Thames estuary Black water/crouch
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mayland
Posts: 373
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07-08-2009, 06:37 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Country: Ireland
Location: Dublin
Occupation: Boatbuilder
Boat make: Hydrostream V-king, 650SS OCR ,Ring 21, Ring 18, Phantom 18.
Engines: 300Hp Mercury 2.4, 130 Yamaha, Bridgeport EFI, XR6, Merc 200.
Cruising area: Malahide, Dublin
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_B
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Look at the usable power of the 2 stroke over the four strokes
The 2 stroke makes power lower in the rpm and holds it to full throttle, the 4 strokes only reach peak power at full throttle.
Most torque in 4x outboards is made with ridiculous gear ratios
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07-08-2009, 07:03 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydrostream
Look at the usable power of the 2 stroke over the four strokes
The 2 stroke makes power lower in the rpm and holds it to full throttle, the 4 strokes only reach peak power at full throttle.
Most torque in 4x outboards is made with ridiculous gear ratios
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i allways thought the opposite..going back to my motorcross days,2 strokes only came alive with rpm's and the stonking 4 strokes had it from zero-8000rpm..thought it was the same with all 2 V 4 strokes
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07-08-2009, 07:18 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Country: netherlands
Location: Mijdrecht/holland
Occupation: truck repair
Interests: fast boats/porches
Boat name: bernico cat
Boat make: bernico 26 cat 2x 2,5,s
Engines: merc,s 2,5 EFI,s
Cruising area: ijselmeer
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mijdrecht/holland
Posts: 382
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2 stroke or 4 stroke can be set up for torque or high horsepower ,or both ,it all depent on how the engine is built /set up by the factory,and durability and purpose ..
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07-08-2009, 08:10 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Country: Ireland
Location: Dublin
Occupation: Boatbuilder
Boat make: Hydrostream V-king, 650SS OCR ,Ring 21, Ring 18, Phantom 18.
Engines: 300Hp Mercury 2.4, 130 Yamaha, Bridgeport EFI, XR6, Merc 200.
Cruising area: Malahide, Dublin
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,803
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Re-post of image above!
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07-08-2009, 08:55 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydrostream
Re-post of image above!
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intresting to see the e-tec peaks then drops as revs increase higher up
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08-08-2009, 02:27 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Weston Super Mare
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weston Super Mare
Posts: 6,351
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those etecs are fantastic
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08-08-2009, 07:56 AM
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#16
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Registered User
Location: GOLDEN MILE
Boat name: LILY THE PINK AND TERMINATOR 11
Boat make: PHANTOM 21 AND 20
Engines: 2.5 EFI X 2
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: GOLDEN MILE
Posts: 2,475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burty
those etecs are fantastic
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Not when they keep going in to guardian mode .
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PLEASE DON'T STEAL...THE GOVERNMENT DON'T LIKE THE COMPETITION
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08-08-2009, 11:08 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Country: Ireland
Location: Dublin
Occupation: Boatbuilder
Boat make: Hydrostream V-king, 650SS OCR ,Ring 21, Ring 18, Phantom 18.
Engines: 300Hp Mercury 2.4, 130 Yamaha, Bridgeport EFI, XR6, Merc 200.
Cruising area: Malahide, Dublin
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roofer
Not when they keep going in to guardian mode .
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Why do they do that? Over revving or water pressure?
Alan
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09-08-2009, 10:37 AM
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#18
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Weston Super Mare
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weston Super Mare
Posts: 6,351
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ours has never done that, had lack of water pressure once (had engine too high) but just alarmed and said reduce throttle
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09-08-2009, 11:45 AM
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#19
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: london
Occupation: Powerboat Skipper
Interests: Boats , bikes!
Boat name: Renegade
Boat make: GPV-RENEGADE
Engines: 150 HO etec
Cruising area: Thames, south coast, anywhere!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: london
Posts: 2,330
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air lock in the oil system will also go into safe mode, the diagnostic software should tell you the fault.
evinrudes are great engines once you get to know them, i know a few of the offshore lads who had problems with the opti's going into safe mode too.
the pros far out weigh the cons with new motors.
I picked up a bag on the thames once, egine overheated and shut down, just turned off, removed bag, let motor tick over for a while and away i went, if that was my old carbed mototr i am sure it would have gone bang.
Paul
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09-08-2009, 02:33 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Guildford
Occupation: Quality Engineer
Interests: Enduro, Rugby and of course Powerboats
Boat name: Dreamcatcher
Boat make: Extreme/Ring 21
Engines: Honda 150
Cruising area: Salcombe south devon
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Guildford
Posts: 95
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graph
That comparison graph is very interesting where did you get it?
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