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02-09-2008, 08:02 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24Maniac
Class 3B has upgraded to 1760cc due to the lack of old 2 strokes. The Yamaha 90 is not sold in europe sins 2007 !
So to make the Class big again the UIM had to find a new engine that would be competitive in 3B.
And I think that the new engines may be the savior of the class.
The E-Tec 115 is homologated.
1760cc would be perfect for you in the UK. The Backdraft 22 is probably a great boat and allso Phantoms.
Twister in Finland is manufacturing great cats that would be perfect!
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Thats what I said "Not enough thought gone into it yet again" !! Yamaha 90's are not only still available (for Racing/Commercial use) thay are also reasonably priced. there is also the 90 TLDI Tohatsu, Mercs, 90 Etec etc. so plenty of epa alternatives !!
I will ask again "How are the UIM / RYA planning to control HP ??
Bob
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National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
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02-09-2008, 10:37 PM
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#22
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
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FWIW going the UIM route ain't gonna cut the cheese. It's about getting the P16, P18, Argos ect & a few of the old raceboats out of there domestic lifestyle
Sticking "new" 115's on the back & driving up the price isn't going to light the touch paper. I will just make all those that have a 90 now & could just do it make a 180 turn.
Keep it simple keep it cheap nowt wrong with a good 2nd hand motor.
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03-09-2008, 01:14 AM
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#23
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Registered User
Country: England
Location: colnbrook
Occupation: Transport Consultant
Interests: Powerboat racing, Ice hockey and aviation.
Boat name: Vines BMW
Boat make: B23
Engines: Evinrude 115HO
Cruising area: South coast
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: colnbrook
Posts: 221
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P16's, 18's and smaller argos great for OCR!!!!!!!
Desperate to spout off now, but don't feel it is an appropriate time!!!!
FYI , I will be running a Green engine next year.
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03-09-2008, 06:31 AM
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#24
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Registered User
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA
What a strange Spec !! I wonder how they propose to control that !!
Bob
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They are going to control it the same way as in 3C by applying the 735.34 UIM rule.
and allso the engines has to be homologed with UIM!
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03-09-2008, 07:49 AM
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#25
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Registered User
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumpy
P16's, 18's and smaller argos great for OCR!!!!!!!
Desperate to spout off now, but don't feel it is an appropriate time!!!!
FYI , I will be running a Green engine next year.
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Which Engine have you chosen!?
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03-09-2008, 08:09 AM
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#26
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Registered User
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluFin
FWIW going the UIM route ain't gonna cut the cheese. It's about getting the P16, P18, Argos ect & a few of the old raceboats out of there domestic lifestyle
Sticking "new" 115's on the back & driving up the price isn't going to light the touch paper. I will just make all those that have a 90 now & could just do it make a 180 turn.
Keep it simple keep it cheap nowt wrong with a good 2nd hand motor.
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The Yamaha 90hp is a great engine!
If you can find a fine used one that is bluprinted and ready it´s a very cheap way to get started!
(I know that there is a few good ones for sale in Sweden and Norway both engines and ready to race boats.)
But to get the class going in to the future, I think that the new EPA ruls i great!
You can now with the incresed cc and torq drive bigger boats that is more suited for Offshore, and still have a competitive race speed!
With the new engines I think that you could push 22-23ft boats in around 60 knots!
Just my opinion
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03-09-2008, 09:09 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
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New 90 yams are still readily available !! Which engines are Homologated ??Does it really matter what colour they are Matt ??
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National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
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03-09-2008, 09:12 AM
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#28
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Registered User
Location: West Coast of Norway
Occupation: naval architect
Interests: surface piercing props, stepped hulls, air entrapment hulls
Boat name: none
Boat make: PetterTintorera
Engines: Yamaha 90
Cruising area: West Coast of Norway
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: West Coast of Norway
Posts: 888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA
New 90 yams are still readily available !! Which engines are Homologated ??Does it really matter what colour they are Matt ??
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What would the price of a new yamaha 90 in the UK then?
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03-09-2008, 09:25 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
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I have asked for a price !! I would expect it to be about £4700 ish !!
The argument being that it will not be quite as quick as a 115 AND 3b IS 1.3ltr !!
Its as daft as allowing 2.5's into 2Ltr !!
It would be as well now to just have 1.6 & 3.2Ltr Throughout Powerboat Racing (with some smaller junior classes and some bigger "look how big my wallet is" Classes)
The Obvious change would have been to include 1600cc 4 Strokes thus keeping the class at 90ish h.p.
presumably Sweden have already worked out how to re-programme the etec ecu's !!
Bob
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National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
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03-09-2008, 06:50 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Country: Wales
Location: West Wales
Boat make: O****y Vipermax 5.8
Engines: 150 Opti
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Wales
Posts: 149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA
I have asked for a price !! I would expect it to be about £4700 ish !!
The argument being that it will not be quite as quick as a 115 AND 3b IS 1.3ltr !!
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A 115 Opti would only be around £5000 - £5500, so not much more than a 90 Yam on carbs. Don't know how much the 115 etec would be - maybe around £6k?
Mad formula though 90hp v 115hp or 1300cc v 1760cc
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03-09-2008, 11:18 PM
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#31
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..
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Downhilldai
Mad formula though 90hp v 115hp or 1300cc v 1760cc
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So can someone confirm whether a 3B mono boat running an older Yam 90hp engine would have a minimum weight of 595kg or 655kg when running against the same boat with a "GREEN" 115 ?? (chart below from page 169 UIM Rules)
Also can anyone confirm if there is a driver / naviator minimum combined weight of 170kg ???
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04-09-2008, 08:52 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foolish
So can someone confirm whether a 3B mono boat running an older Yam 90hp engine would have a minimum weight of 595kg or 655kg when running against the same boat with a "GREEN" 115 ?? (chart below from page 169 UIM Rules)
Also can anyone confirm if there is a driver / naviator minimum combined weight of 170kg ???
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Yes !! 595kg Min Weight for 3b Mono !! It seems they are running as 2 seperate classes, which would make perfect sense (if there were a dozen or more in each)
Presumably you will need a heavier crew in 3b epa !! These people are obviously not racers !!
Good luck with it I am sure it will be very fair.
Bob
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National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
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04-09-2008, 08:53 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
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PS Does anyone know how they will control it ??
Bob
__________________
If Only
National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
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04-09-2008, 09:09 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Country: England
Location: Warsash
Occupation: Boat Designer
Interests: sport
Boat name: Santana
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Warsash
Posts: 1,838
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New rules look pretty good to me!
I think the UIM reacted to the class dying out and have made some positive moves to get it going again and given a new life.
- 3B has not had any interest in this country for some years now and has not been raced
- Other countries were also seeing smaller numbers of competitors racing
- Racing does have to go to epa engines - and thus engines that are for sale by manufacturers now and for the future.
- not good saying 3B is 1.3Litre and 3C is 2Litre. This has all changed and have to move with the times.
I could be interested in racing with a 115 engine - whilst I probably would not with an old 90hp. Racing is never going to be cheap - with cost of entries, travelling, licences etc - so the extra cost of the 115 looks good value to me.
However feel sorry for people who 90hp 3B rigs and although I'm sure they can still race at National level - it is a lot of hp to be giving away!
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08-09-2008, 10:02 AM
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#35
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Registered User
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA
Yes !! 595kg Min Weight for 3b Mono !! It seems they are running as 2 seperate classes, which would make perfect sense (if there were a dozen or more in each)
Presumably you will need a heavier crew in 3b epa !! These people are obviously not racers !!
Good luck with it I am sure it will be very fair.
Bob
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3B is one class!!!!!
only different weight requierments, and it's the same crew weight 170kg!
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08-09-2008, 11:49 AM
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#36
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Registered User
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA
I have asked for a price !! I would expect it to be about £4700 ish !!
The argument being that it will not be quite as quick as a 115 AND 3b IS 1.3ltr !!
Its as daft as allowing 2.5's into 2Ltr !!
It would be as well now to just have 1.6 & 3.2Ltr Throughout Powerboat Racing (with some smaller junior classes and some bigger "look how big my wallet is" Classes)
The Obvious change would have been to include 1600cc 4 Strokes thus keeping the class at 90ish h.p.
presumably Sweden have already worked out how to re-programme the etec ecu's !!
Bob
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I see no need to be RUDE on this forum !!!!!
The biggest advance with these new EPA engines is that you don´t have to tamper with them!
You are not allowed to!!!
The one that does,should be punished according to Sharia Laws!
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08-09-2008, 11:52 AM
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#37
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Registered User
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA
I have asked for a price !! I would expect it to be about £4700 ish !!
The argument being that it will not be quite as quick as a 115 AND 3b IS 1.3ltr !!
Its as daft as allowing 2.5's into 2Ltr !!
It would be as well now to just have 1.6 & 3.2Ltr Throughout Powerboat Racing (with some smaller junior classes and some bigger "look how big my wallet is" Classes)
The Obvious change would have been to include 1600cc 4 Strokes thus keeping the class at 90ish h.p.
presumably Sweden have already worked out how to re-programme the etec ecu's !!
Bob
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Tests have shown that the 90hp 4 strokes have no chans against the yam 90!
And sinse the class have to be renewed they changed to 1760cc and 115hp
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08-09-2008, 11:56 AM
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#38
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Registered User
Location: West Coast of Norway
Occupation: naval architect
Interests: surface piercing props, stepped hulls, air entrapment hulls
Boat name: none
Boat make: PetterTintorera
Engines: Yamaha 90
Cruising area: West Coast of Norway
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: West Coast of Norway
Posts: 888
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A blue printed Yamaha 90hp was about 115hp?
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09-09-2008, 12:50 AM
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#39
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Registered User
Country: Wales
Location: West Wales
Boat make: O****y Vipermax 5.8
Engines: 150 Opti
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Wales
Posts: 149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scand
A blue printed Yamaha 90hp was about 115hp?
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And I don't suppose anyone has blueprinted a 4-stroke 90, so there wouldn't be a 'like for like' comparison
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09-09-2008, 06:31 AM
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#40
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Registered User
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Downhilldai
And I don't suppose anyone has blueprinted a 4-stroke 90, so there wouldn't be a 'like for like' comparison
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You are not allowed to according to the EPA regulations !
And that is the best with the EPA rules!
You don't have to have your cylinder head faced and blueprinted!
One big problem with the 4 strokes is the gear rotation. You have to run very high pitched props, and since the 4 strokes lacks torq it's aproblem getting your boat out of the hole !
But you can just ask your Honda racers in the UK !
And I would not want to flip my boat with a 4 stroke on full throttle. I presume that the valves and lifters would not like it when the water comes rushing in !?
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