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Old 28-06-2006, 12:47 PM   #81
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Re: boats

Quote:
Originally posted by Rockey
rob understand where you are on this but j/f is right remember
that day you lost the hatch chris and his bro came up from seaton with the p21 + the 26 i was in the windy nick gave chris a sound
thrashing in the 21 though he is a good driver and no's the boat very well it was a fair bit faster, the only extreme around to give a p21 etc a run for it money would be andy e boat thats my 2 p worth
Col, what sea conditions are you talking about tho? on the flat, p21 with loads of HP, yes I'm sure is fast, but there must be a point in sea state (again, with drivers of the same ability) where an exteme 26 would come off better?
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Old 28-06-2006, 12:51 PM   #82
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well I'm prob not even as good as an 'average driver' and i've got a feckin heavy 21 Phantom & got to 5 checkpoints quicker than most of the stuff on the PR. Excluding a couple of stages when Andy gave 'Bambino' a good dose of leadfoot.
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Old 28-06-2006, 12:55 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Chaos
well I'm prob not even as good as an 'average driver' and i've got a feckin heavy 21 Phantom & got to 5 checkpoints quicker than most of the stuff on the PR. Excluding a couple of stages when Andy gave 'Bambino' a good dose of leadfoot.
The pictures from saturday look good, looks pretty calm too! perfect for a p21!
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Old 28-06-2006, 01:03 PM   #84
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always looks calm on film. Perhaps nextime you should come for a stint in my boat and tell me how calm you think it was.

The bruises from my seats kinda give the game away!
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Old 28-06-2006, 01:05 PM   #85
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Re: Re: boats

Quote:
Originally posted by Biggest Arms
there must be a point in sea state (again, with drivers of the same ability) where an exteme 26 would come off better?
Yeah, but your argument is based on a 26 with only 300hp (meager for a boat of that size), that's my whole point!

It was very rare indeed for us to be anywhere near a class III 4 litre boat when we were racing. If we were, it was usually because it was so rough that the guys in the 4 litre boat couldn't see shit through the swamped canopies. A P25 is a 4 litre 'class' boat. A single 300 on one would be a pretty good tool in performance pleasure boat speak. (you included the 25 in your comparisons)

lets just agree that the Ring/Extreme 24/26 is a bloody good all-round boat.

I raced about 3000 miles in them, and did 2000 miles in Maelstrom as a pleasure boat in '98. All of it fun. (well, most of it)
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Old 28-06-2006, 01:11 PM   #86
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You'll prob know JF,

Is it physically possible to get a couple of smaller diesels into an E26?

I was thinking in terms of those compact VW-marine jobbies .. what 250hp each?

dont know whether it'd make for a slow ole shitter or not (relative to a single yanmar ofcourse).
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Old 28-06-2006, 01:15 PM   #87
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How can you compare a P21 with SOB to a single outboard to a 26' inboard weighing twice as much.

Or

Frankly, I was horrified at the way all the "little boats" were bouncing around, getting air, having to trim in, etc etc. My 3 tonne cruiser it was ever so smooth - obviously it's a much better boat.
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Old 28-06-2006, 01:17 PM   #88
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Re: Re: Re: boats

Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
Yeah, but your argument is based on a 26 with only 300hp (meager for a boat of that size), that's my whole point!

It was very rare indeed for us to be anywhere near a class III 4 litre boat when we were racing. If we were, it was usually because it was so rough that the guys in the 4 litre boat couldn't see shit through the swamped canopies. A P25 is a 4 litre 'class' boat. A single 300 on one would be a pretty good tool in performance pleasure boat speak. (you included the 25 in your comparisons)

lets just agree that the Ring/Extreme 24/26 is a bloody good all-round boat.

I raced about 3000 miles in them, and did 2000 miles in Maelstrom as a pleasure boat in '98. All of it fun. (well, most of it)
Cool. Meager engine, for more meager users ... I think racing boats is a whole different ball game to leisure useage and the odd PR.

So are there any reasonable alternatives around at the moment?
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Old 28-06-2006, 01:36 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt
How can you compare a P21 with SOB to a single outboard to a 26' inboard weighing twice as much.
Exactly. There is no comparison.
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Old 28-06-2006, 01:47 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by Biggest Arms
Exactly. There is no comparison.
Agreed!....so who was it that started all this comparison stuff?
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Old 28-06-2006, 01:53 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
Agreed!....so who was it that started all this comparison stuff?
I just asked myself the same question and so read the thread to find out .. Rob did say that he felt the E26 was superior (in his experiences) to small phantoms (only becuase someone said (jonny boat dude? they were a hard ride) when it's choppy, but to be fair, it was you who took that remark too seriously Jon!!!!!

I guess people can only comment from their own experiences and have to believe what they see with their own eyes to some extent ... guess we are not all as lucky to have had "racing" experience ...
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Old 28-06-2006, 01:54 PM   #92
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Re: Re: boats

Quote:
Originally posted by Biggest Arms
Col, what sea conditions are you talking about tho? on the flat, p21 with loads of HP, yes I'm sure is fast, but there must be a point in sea state (again, with drivers of the same ability) where an exteme 26 would come off better?

will it was pretty rough the only flat water was down the ski area
and a blast along the front at bournemouth mind you the windy went through it well
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Old 28-06-2006, 02:04 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by Biggest Arms
I just asked myself the same question and so read the thread to find out .. Rob did say that he felt the E26 was superior (in his experiences) to small phantoms (only becuase someone said (jonny boat dude? they were a hard ride) when it's choppy, but to be fair, it was you who took that remark too seriously Jon!!!!!

I guess people can only comment from their own experiences and have to believe what they see with their own eyes to some extent ... guess we are not all as lucky to have had "racing" experience ...
If you read it, you'll see he actually said it was far superior to a P25 with 200+ in the rough, and it aint. And with more suitable motor(s), as BA says,..no comparison, at least with a 300hp E26.

I don't want boatmad to be a source of duff info, especially in relation to Phantom

PS, why weren't you at the Poker Run?
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Old 28-06-2006, 02:16 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Chaos
always looks calm on film.
That's because it was calm
Quote:
Perhaps nextime you should come for a stint in my boat and tell me how calm you think I was.
You did look like you were concentrating quite hard!
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Old 28-06-2006, 02:23 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Chaos
I was thinking in terms of those compact VW-marine jobbies .. what 250hp each?
Those 5 cylinder VWs only give about 150hp.

There's a comparison spreadsheet here: http://www.rib.net/download/diesel-sterndrives.xls
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Old 28-06-2006, 02:25 PM   #96
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its very difficult having only 2 brain-cells........

Its very probable I always look that way when I'm driving!
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Old 28-06-2006, 02:27 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Rocket
Those 5 cylinder VWs only give about 150hp.

There's a comparison spreadsheet here: http://www.rib.net/download/diesel-sterndrives.xls
I was more thinking of the 2.5 V6's ...... I dont know for sure, but i kinda remember them looking very compact on the stand at the LIBS.
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Old 28-06-2006, 02:33 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by Biggest Arms
The pictures from saturday look good, looks pretty calm too! perfect for a p21!
It was!
An absolute perfect day. and I would say, about as flat as you'll ever see in the Solent.

As for what type of boat it was perfect for, the next decent, horribly rough race there is in Poole bay, needs you to take your E21, with it's weight, beam, extra power etc, and run with the racers, and see how long it takes for Ian in his P21 to come round and lap you.
My money says the rougher it is, the shorter the time will be.
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Old 28-06-2006, 02:39 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
If you read it, you'll see he actually said it was far superior to a P25 with 200+ in the rough, and it aint. And with more suitable motor(s), as BA says,..no comparison, at least with a 300hp E26.

I don't want boatmad to be a source of duff info, especially in relation to Phantom

PS, why weren't you at the Poker Run?
Yeah, I think the p25 would be pretty similar, I think the key here is common sense! Similar sized boats with similar shaped hulls, can't be that different! I think the main thing Admiral P. was getting at, is that as you say, the E26 is a very capable boat and I would say pretty comfortable too (like all Extremes ), contrary to what was said .. Admiral was comparing to measure, I guess to illustrate his point (and I don't think for a minute he was slating Phantom .. I would say this is an "opinion" not "info") ..

PR .. no co-pilot .. .. maybe next year? Shame though, as the conditions were great by the looks ...
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Old 28-06-2006, 02:43 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
As for what type of boat it was perfect for, the next decent, horribly rough race there is in Poole bay, needs you to take your E21, with it's weight, beam, extra power etc, and run with the racers, and see how long it takes for Ian in his P21 to come round and lap you.
My money says the rougher it is, the shorter the time will be.
If someone is prepared to finance any damage to my E21 if things get F****** up, then I'll give it a go!
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