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Old 30-09-2014, 09:37 AM   #21
To crazy To drive #91
 
Country: belgium
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Originally Posted by cossie69 View Post
just buy a bernico
that's what i'm talking about
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Old 30-09-2014, 09:44 AM   #22
... sundowner anyone ?
 
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Country: mauritius
Location: flic en flac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cossie69 View Post
just buy a bernico
... ermm, hes after a good boat, not a flower bucket
... as far as i understand, mebbe im wrong of course
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Old 30-09-2014, 04:42 PM   #23
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Country: Finland
Location: Helsinki
Interests: Everything fast
Boat make: Hydrostep 650, TG 5000XR, Kimach 450 Speed, Stopper
Engines: Merc 115 ProXS 4S, Merc 60 Formula Race, Yamaha 20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just4Fun View Post
On something like a Phantom 21, what leg length do I need in inches?
I would say a 20" is what you need.
I also know that puritans say you should bolt the engine straight to the transom with a Laser II but then 70+MPH might remain a dream and you certainly will have a handful to drive. However, at least here in Scandinavia all serious power boats have jack plates to adjust the motor height to fit the conditions. In calm waters the higher the better until prop slip occurs. And yes, the waters in Sweden and Finland are very much diffferent to that of the Atlantic. We have a lot of small islands to break off the wind and waves.

Having driven the ex Sweden now Finland based lightweight P21 with a 250XS I can say set up is everything. Amund201 did a tremendous job to balance the set up for top speed in ideal conditions. Before finding the right prop and ride height for that prop he went through 24 different props. He managed to hit 92MPH as his best. Unfortunately the setup was "lost in translation" as the new owner tried to learn to handle the boat. The boat was then passed on and the current owner had to start the trial and error process a few steps back. The P21 is now run with a special labbed 4-blade Hydromotive Intimidator Quad IV X O/B SST A+ in 15x26" (what a catchy name for a prop ). In the current set up the bullet is 25mm / 1" above pad with a 5.5" setback and according to Hydromotive and guys who know how the Sportmaster gearcase works say it should be even higher. So far the Garmin GPS recorded top speed is 86MPH at 6080RPM, 1.62 gear ratio, water pressure 25PSI and prop slip 7%. And what's more important, at least for an amateur like myself, I can also drive the boat at 80+MPH for miles dead straight without any chine walk. As most of you know the P21 is not at its best in dead calm sea but likes the water surface to be broken. The best results so far were recorded at winds of 4-5 m/s.

I must agree with Bruno that in the current setup and the way the boat was originally built it couldn't withstand the rough sea you are accustomed to without breaking into pieces...
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Old 30-09-2014, 05:04 PM   #24
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Country: England
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I love the detail in your reply. I fear that I would not have the patience, resources or knowledge to extract anything like that performance. Also I hadn't appreciated quite how high the bullet would be. Cooling and steering must be potential problems. However it gives me hope that with a bit of finessing of a stock outfit one can possibly get a few more mph. Well jealous !!
As a matter of interest why would no jack plate and a Laser II be a handful to drive ?
And what is the secret to avoid chine walking in the flat ? That's got to be a clever trick.
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Old 30-09-2014, 05:25 PM   #25
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Country: Finland
Location: Helsinki
Interests: Everything fast
Boat make: Hydrostep 650, TG 5000XR, Kimach 450 Speed, Stopper
Engines: Merc 115 ProXS 4S, Merc 60 Formula Race, Yamaha 20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just4Fun View Post
I love the detail in your reply. I fear that I would not have the patience, resources or knowledge to extract anything like that performance. Also I hadn't appreciated quite how high the bullet would be. Cooling and steering must be potential problems. However it gives me hope that with a bit of finessing of a stock outfit one can possibly get a few more mph. Well jealous !!
As a matter of interest why would no jack plate and a Laser II be a handful to drive ?
And what is the secret to avoid chine walking in the flat ? That's got to be a clever trick.
Pro drivers might disagree as they have handling chine walk in their back bone... To my amateur experience the boat tends to chinewalk more and earlier at high speed when the engine is lower. The lightweight P21 chine walked like you wouldn't believe with a 3-blade prop with the bullet already 10mm over pad. And this was already at 60MPH. The higher the engine went the less there was chine walk. Swithching over to a 4-blade standard 27" Trophy Plus eased the chine walk but it was still there, it just came later. In this case enough height with a hand labbed 4-blade prop made an unbelieveable difference. It is really something that is hard to believe before you have experienced it yourself. The P21 was still somewhat scary to drive with the Trophy+ but with the Hydro it's almost like a walk in the park.

Keep in mind, the set up and prop thing is such a mystery that even with seamingfully similar set ups two boats might perform quite differently. Unfortunately there is no easy way out unless you are really lucky. To my experience and the experience of local speed boaters a 4-blade prop is much easier to drive although you might lose a mile or two at top end.
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Old 30-09-2014, 05:33 PM   #26
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Country: Sweden
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+1 on what you said Carrera!
Had a ride in Amunds P21 when he had it. That boat made me a Phantomfanatic
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Old 30-09-2014, 05:40 PM   #27
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Country: England
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Again, many thanks Carrera for the useful information. I am warming to the idea of playing with the setup just as a challenge to myself.
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7) Marshan 17 & 140hp Suzuki
8) Rinker 236 & 365hp Mercruiser
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Old 30-09-2014, 07:10 PM   #28
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Country: Guernsey
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Boat name: Slayer II, Slayer, Pen15
Boat make: Phantom 19G-R, Bernico F2 Extreme, Ring 15
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Having good tight steering with no play or air bubbles if hydraulic, and solid engine mounts massively help with preventing or controlling chine walk.

You shouldn't be afraid of running with the motor fairly high. Most of the Phantom 20s and 21s racing here have the prop shaft around 1-2" below the keel, and have no problems with grip or steering.

4 bladed props in General will handle better than 3 blades, but may be marginally slower in perfect conditions. Drivability is much more important than peak speeds though whether racing or pissing about with your mates!

A drivable 70mph set up that handles crappy water at lower speeds is definitely attainable without resorting to full racing setups and the resulting problems you'd get.

As for the Bernico plant pot thing, mine goes pretty well for a flower pot thanks.
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