New Class Of Racing Part 2

[Matt]

Yeh, 280hp.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by roofer
P25 with twin 200hp xr2's will run mid 70's, my old jetski would nearly hit 70 with 750cc turbo engine.

If you bring to many regulations and hp limits in no one will want to race, which is exactly whats happening now.

Yes, and some of the 750cc ironing boards that run on windermere will go twice that speed, but that has no more relevance to this Offshore class, than your jetski does.

If the rules, and power to weight 'Aren't' sorted/capped at the outset, you'll get a good turn out for a few races, then 90% of the fleet will realise they're just making up the numbers, get bored, and feck off back to doing what they were doing before.

Without puting too finer point on it, evey time you've talked about racing, you've wanted a gazillion hp, and say you'd be bored with anything less. .....What have you achieved in powerboat racing thus far with that outlook?

[roofer]

Originally posted by Jon Fuller


If the rules, and power to weight 'Aren't' sorted/capped at the outset, you'll get a good turn out for a few races, then 90% of the fleet will realise they're just making up the numbers, get bored, and feck off back to doing what they were doing before.

If that were true why do some of the 2 litre class keep on racing? Lets face it racing in this country's on its arse, when someone comes along with a good idea instead of getting behind them, some people can't wait to run them down.

[roofer]

Originally posted by Jon Fuller


Without puting too finer point on it, evey time you've talked about racing, you've wanted a gazillion hp, and say you'd be bored with anything less. .....What have you achieved in powerboat racing thus far with that outlook?

Nothing, Yet !

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by roofer
If that were true why do some of the 2 litre class keep on racing? Lets face it racing in this country's on its arse, when someone comes along with a good idea instead of getting behind them, some people can't wait to run them down.

There will always be a few people, who are happy to just compete.

As for your second statement, if that's refering to me, you're wrong.

My comments are just my opinions, which I've formed through watching/competing over a number of years, and have seen the same, cyclical thing happen a few times already.

I do 'back' the idea of such a class whole-heartedly, but feel there a few details that "In my opinion" will need to be sorted to give the class a chance of surviving the long term, rather than being a flash in the pan.

My comments are coming from someone unlikely to compete, so I have no 'vested interest' in any particular format and are purely in the interests of building a sustainable formula.
Where as yours, and probably a few others, will be based purely on wanting your own existing boat to fit the class, and be at the top of an unfair pecking order.

[flightracingteam]

Guys The original question was how many of you wanted to go racing in a new class with more H/P. I am quite happy to sort this new class out it will take hard work, my money and my dedication to the sport to make this happen, but what i have seen so far is quite a lot of negitivity. If you dont get behind it..it aint happening in my line of work we have a saying there are old pilots and bold pilots there are no old bold pilots and the worse type of pilots are bar-room pilots.If you want a class of racing that brings out the many boats that are not racing at the moment get behind the basis of this idea, i know it needs tunning and its no where near perfect yet, but given the time and the imput we can get it right and get Powerboat racing in the UK back on the map.All most of us want to do is go racing in a class that we can afford and last time i looked racing is about going as fast as you can go inside the rules. As for safety i am fully aware of the many safety factors involved and the amount of work that it will take to make each event happen, unlike so many people i am prepared to stick my neck out and have a go in a positive fashion to promote Powerboat racing for everybody................

[Gav]

Originally posted by flightracingteam
Guys The original question was how many of you wanted to go racing in a new class with more H/P. I am quite happy to sort this new class out it will take hard work, my money and my dedication to the sport to make this happen, but what i have seen so far is quite a lot of negitivity. If you dont get behind it..it aint happening in my line of work we have a saying there are old pilots and bold pilots there are no old bold pilots and the worse type of pilots are bar-room pilots.If you want a class of racing that brings out the many boats that are not racing at the moment get behind the basis of this idea, i know it needs tunning and its no where near perfect yet, but given the time and the imput we can get it right and get Powerboat racing in the UK back on the map.All most of us want to do is go racing in a class that we can afford and last time i looked racing is about going as fast as you can go inside the rules. As for safety i am fully aware of the many safety factors involved and the amount of work that it will take to make each event happen, unlike so many people i am prepared to stick my neck out and have a go in a positive fashion to promote Powerboat racing for everybody................

well put!

i do have veiws on this but i aint gonna stick my nose into an area of powerboating i know little about..........so good luck guys and hope it works out for you.

gav

[OOD]

Gary well done ,go for it
Come on Guys support the man he is putting his head on the block for raceing so lets go with him

Gary you have my support and the support of my Club

Tony Fiddy Commodore of COPOC

Good luck go for it but you must have the rules right

[NAUTIQUE]

Count me in-terested
Is it not possible to work out a handicap system that takes into act all factors such as weight, hp, size say a setup similar to yacht racing, that way every boat can race reasonably fairly what ever size or flavour and the boat that takes line honours may not neccessarily be the overall winner. Just a thought

[verytricky]

When I used to race SATCAR the Audi's came along and screwed everyone. So they invented a rule which said that Audi could not use 4wd, so Audi withdrew. Then BMW came up with the new 328is and beat everyone, so they added 150kg to the BMW....

So three years later you had Toyota vs Mazda vs Ford. ( the Vauxhall was banned from the outset )

The penalty for a good package was being restricted or banned.



That was uncool.


FJ occasionally has good points. Others sometimes as well. What we possibly need is an actual meeting IRL of people who are interested, and discuss and try to resolve the issues we see here. Possibly book a meeting room, and see if we all together can resolve the outstanding points into a workable set of rules for the class. Possibly even include weight penalties for winning? A weight you have to carry for three races, so you could accumulate weight if you were totally over the top successfull?

Personally I believe there should be a rule regarding MINIMUM noise, and quiet engines *banned* immediately.

Big, fast, noisy: Feck the do gooders. Plant trees to offset your carbon waste: a group of noisy, big, hopefully fast boats would be excellent!

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by flightracingteam
I am quite happy to sort this new class out it will take hard work, my money and my dedication to the sport to make this happen................

We're not worthy!!

Originally posted by verytricky
Possibly even include weight penalties for winning? A weight you have to carry for three races, so you could accumulate weight if you were totally over the top successfull?

That's handycapping, which I believe is a sport killer, and doesn't encourage anyone to improve their 'game'.

sort the rules, lay them out, and let people improve the breed until they're competitive, that's racing.

Outrageously low weight, and high HP will make it cheque book racing, and dangerous.

Handycapping will only let the useless wankers of this world get on the podium, and punish those who can set up & drive a boat properly, and to the rules....remember Offshore 2000???

Why is it lessons can't be learned from 'decades' of documented mistakes?

Ho hum

Good luck

kind regards,


a bar-room pilot.

[cfun]

Big, fast, noisy: Feck the do gooders. Plant trees to offset your carbon waste: a group of noisy, big, hopefully fast boats would be excellent! [/B][/QUOTE]

Your a Bad Bad boy noisy Tricky

[flightracingteam]

Guys...Talking weights

There seems to be some confussion as to the Minimum weights and some seem to think that this class will be for ultra light boats wrong!!!!
Just for your information PB1 Currently states that a class 3 boat 4 litre which is 400H/P the min weight for this class is 1000 kilo for a mono and 1250 for a cat. This boat would come into the hotboat 600 class and the minimum weight for the class will be 1500 kilos some 500 kilos heavier than the min weight already stated in PB1 for this size boat 6 Litre boats have a minimum UIM weight of 1500 Kilos most weight in at about 1750 so again the UIM seem to think that this is a fair and safe weight.
As for the Minimum weight for the Hotboat 1000 class the power to weight ratio will be 1 H/P for every 4 Kilos in weight this means that if a team were to run the full 1000 H/P their boat would have to weight a Minimum of 4000 Kilos which just for the record the UIM book states for class 2 that petrol outboard monohulls have a Min weight of 2250 Kilos and Petrol inboard boats have a minimum weight of 2700 Kilos.So working on this Theroy if you were to come out with a boat that weighted 2700 kilos in hotboats 1000 class you would only be able to run 675 H/P so as you can see this class is not designed to be eggshell racing as the minimum weights are higher than the UIM and RYA requirements. We are planning a meeting of all interested parties and would invite anybody who wishes to move this concept forward. If you could let me know if you wish to attend we can arrange an approprite venue and time...........

[DYNO BOB]

I seem to remember reading on b/mad not long ago that all everyone wanted to do was race your boats, so go and race your boats and see what develops.
The more boats that actually turn up instead of saying they might will improve the venue, the racing and the clubs enthusiasm for putting on more events.
Not to mention the guy sat on the shore watching a boat racing that could be the same as his sat in a marina somewhere, you never know it might encourage him to have a go.

[Jon Fuller]

With these rules, you'll have 6 litre cats as the only choice for hotboat 600 (anyone remember 'All of a quiver' or Neils 6 litre?)

And class II cats for hotboat 1000.

The dream of getting all the old existing stuff out is a nonsense.

Rogers Severy's 'T' boat, was a highly competitive 600 hp mono 'in class', and there's a good few boats like it around. noisy, reliable, safe.
But.. it would fall into the same class as the 110mph, 32' all conquering 'Quiver' with the proposed rules.

73mph, 28 footer, or 32' 110mph, ,,real close racing that'd make! not.

If you can't get a formula that brings the boats into at least a reasonable 'pack', it's doomed.

Sorry to be negative, but I'm trying to be realistic.

Why would anyone in their right mind (lets use Paul Howes as an example, though he's not in his right mind) pay to race a 70mph 3 ton fast pleasure boat, againt a boat like neils cat, or 'Quiver'?
I can't imagine a single situation where he wouldn't get lapped, multiple times! the same would go for Roger S, Me, the old Gardner Laminating boat, Mr Noisy etc, etc.

[flightracingteam]

Mr fuller at no time have i said this new class is for classic boats if you want to race them you can join COPOC there will be happy to have you.

[Jon Fuller]

Mr Flight, at no time have I said I want to race at all!
And I didn't mention 'classic', Paul Howes 33 is 2 years old, hardly a classic.

And anyway, their club is for 15 year old+ boats, so you're wrong, as mine is a 2000.

If you wanna build a six litre & Class II fleet, why not just race six litre & class II?

Good luck

[DYNO BOB]

WHO CARES ABOUT BEING LAPPED BY ONE QUICK BOAT THE REST OF YOU WOULD BE ENJOYING GOOD RACING, ISN'T THAT THE IDEA OF RACING. CHANCE'S ARE THE HIGHLY TUNED RACEBOAT WOULD BREAKDOWN ANYWAY.

[Burty]

How is a 30' or 32' cat with standard 280's highly tuned?
Tony's 30' Spectre if running twin 2.5 260's will do 105mph and thats a comfy 5 seater not built as a race boat.
I for one wouldn't even consider entering if i was just going to be lapped.
Whats the saying, 'its the taking part that counts'
Bollox! everyone wants to win not just make up the numbers

[DYNO BOB]

You clearly miss the point of a hobby and enjoying yourself with like minded friends.

If you were to be true most classes of racing would only consist of the fastest three boats, no body else need bother going!