Round the Island race

[TimB-C]

I am sorry but Marc you are just advocating what has ruined this sport.
I have petitioned for GPS to be banned in racing it is a very useful gadget but highly dangerous, hence cowes'91 and why the sport it to put it not to pointedly F****d

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by cfun

having thought about the above it's not quite the statement I would like it's to negative...Because P1 have given us petrol head powerboat followers a great spectacle to watch in power boating's back yard (the Isle of wight), in spite of the rule it races under, and as I understand the original idea being to race all the old Mono hulls lying around from the 70/80's heydays may well have not managed to exceed the 87mph rule...after last years race 1 at the same venue the same happened due in part to calm conditions, however then they had not to go over 87mph for every lap of the race, P1 obviously felt 87mph for the entire race raised the bar, however with the new supper fast hulls appearing this again has proven inadequate, so I am sure they will go back to the drawing board and come up with another way.......

|It was a pity all the winning teams could not have there champagne throwing
prize giving, but I should not feel sorry for the teams they are doing what they love and living life to the full just a bit of tampering with the rules will be required for them to leave with a smile and a cup

Thanks to everyone for your comments
We are obviously embarrased by what turned into a farce for both the public watching the race and those of us involved who wanted to race!

To be fair, when asked to go on the podium we refused based on the fact that we are not proud of what transpired.

Rules cannot be changed easily under UIM rules, but this will be addressed in the future following a rules meeting we had today.

In the meantime ... sunday will be better

[verytricky]

Originally Posted by TimB-C

I am sorry but Marc you are just advocating what has ruined this sport.

Cowes 91?

You can ban navigators using GPS if you want. Problem is they are soo tiny these days you can hide them anywhere and you know that a whole bunch of people will cheat!

They can be a useful tool to restrict top speed of boats - without giving any clue to the crew their location. It would be a black box to them.

Much like the Volvo Penta engine is limited to 5000RPM in the V24 class ( well my engine is.. ) you could use the GPS as a tool to limit the speed of the boats to the UIM declared 'safe' speed.

If you dont do this, then you will fall out of the UIM rules for pleasure navigation, and fall into another class altogether, with rules designed to save crew if they have an accident!

[TimB-C]

They may be able to hide them but there is a detector to catch them and I still want to know how even with this lethal little box they get lost and how half the fleets in circuit(offshore joke) when you can see one bouy to the next they still get lost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your comments on the rules etc Marc prove my point that the RYA and UIM are a *********************** joke..........and 75% of the reps have never seen a boat let alone raced in one...
Can't wait for next year 'cos even with GPS if battery or electrics go the navi's could navigate around a tin can

[CB1]

This post is not ment to cause offence. 2 things Mark, firstly the P1 rules dont keep crews safe. look at germany. 2ndly you get dq'd for missing marks using a GPS.

[CB1]

I'm with Tim on this one. Get them out of the boats and then lets race.And before you say yes we do use one at present cuz the rules allow. If they didnt we wouldnt and would go back to using the 2 compasses that are instaled in our rig.

[TimB-C]

ouch..................

[CB1]

Still I suppose if gps's were banned youd be happy to follow v2 round because Mark Bridges is probally the best navigator that has raced class3 and V class for many years. Followed a close 2nd by Dave Voyce that is in his navigation not following Mark!!!!!

[verytricky]

Originally Posted by CB1

This post is not ment to cause offence. 2 things Mark, firstly the P1 rules dont keep crews safe. look at germany. 2ndly you get dq'd for missing marks using a GPS.

If you really dont want to cause offence, try spelling my name correctly - its not too difficult.

With respect: If you flip the boat, or if you submarine or spin out etc at say 90 miles an hour, your chances of breaking something important are very high. If the same incident occurs at 100mph you are dead cert. Remember the adverts for the 30 mph speed limits? That tiny diffenernce in speed means a lot.

Now there will always be an accident where no matter what precautions you have taken someone dies. It is about mitigation of risk, not removal of risk. Racers will die in a canopied boat, but - and I think research will back this up - you are much much more likely to get killed or seriously injured in an open boat if an accident occurs.

Personally, I like a main GPS, with a hand held backup. Additionally, for each race we have the compass bearings and estimated leg times and distances in case the USA decides to turn the GPS system off for a time. In the picture is my plan for yesterdays race. So if all failed we would still have run the race using the same course, just reverting to a compass and a stopwatch.

Ana would prefer that. She gets bored around the cans, especially those when you can see the next can and it is navigation by sight, with possibly only one lap shape! A good complicated multi shaped lap system and different orderings of the laps are good news for the navigessor, who otherwise might as well not come in the boat at all



If someone misses a mark, they should get DQ'd. You can not blame the GPS for that! However, what if the mark sinks! It has happened last year. And one mark got blown away cause the anchor line broke. So then you turn on the point where the turn bouy SHOULD have been. If you insist on turning 20 meters short, because you GPS says so and dont go around the turn bouy - that is your issue. But if you arrive at the turn point, and there is simply no bouy in sight, you HAVE to make the decision to continue the race, you can not just keep on going round in circles looking for a non - existing bouy.

[TimB-C]

Don't forget also that IF trackers were fitted they would tell if someone had missed a mark OR passed it on the wrong side..... As for speed restrictions I have to totaly disagree with you Mark, and say that you are coming into/sorry came into a sport that bears absolutely no resemblence to it's title.. You circuit race it just happens to be in a bay on the sea and once a year you go round the island,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,60 miles WOW................. and you only need to keep turning right to get round and yet people still get lost!!!!!!!!
I appologise if I offend but you are being very nieve and showing a real lack of understanding.
ALL you comments are based on illogical rules and regs which bear no relation to what we are doing.
I believe it was you who said something about litigation etc Are you a lawyer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! because you are taking the sport not as a sport but as a place to avoid litigation, did you not learn anything from the Guernsey problem?? You were hard done by and cheated HOWEVER, you are playing into their hands...

[TimB-C]

I give up Marc you are missing the point..............This is supposed to be fun, not a legal battle, and if you miss a mark with GPS or run up a beach it is bad driving aswell as navigation and as the driver the but stops with you m8

[verytricky]

Originally Posted by CB1

Still I suppose if gps's were banned youd be happy to follow v2 round .....

I would probably only follow V2 if Pete Little is driving the boat like he did at Cowes. When Cliff is driving the boat I cant go slow enough to follow V2.

Besides Ana likes the navigation thing. She is good enough to do a proper compass only race.

[verytricky]

Originally Posted by TimB-C

I give up Marc you are missing the point..............This is supposed to be fun, not a legal battle, and if you miss a mark with GPS or run up a beach it is bad driving aswell as navigation and as the driver the but stops with you m8

I think you are missing the point actually....

1) I dont mind the navigation by compass only. I dont think it will ever happen, because it simply can not be policed, and it gives the boat a distinct advantage, so it will be used.

2) P1 have to obey certain rules, else they are no longer pleasure navigation, they become another class. My intention is to offer a solution to an existing problem. You have a very successful series that is hitting its head on a stupid rule. The people who invented the rule will not allow the rule to be bent or moved/removed, so you have to find a way to race within the parameters given. It is not ideal, and I suggested about 12 months ago that there would come a time when 10 boats raced around a course, then lined up 10 meters from the finish line and watched their computers to tell them when to cross it. It is silly. It does not look good. I would prefer to restrict the boats in some or other way so they simply can not break the base rule of their category, and let them race. There are other ways - resrtictor plates on the air intakes, moore weight, but they can result in a super efficient engine winning everything, and not down to the boats. A speed limit enforced on the boats would put the boats together into a pack and force tight racing. That would look cool? I think so.

3) I dont get why you are unhappy with my comments on missing a mark? Perhaps you could re-read them? Or explain why you are unhappy with my comments.

4) The 'sport' is a wierd one. And I would like to see the fields of 12 V24's racing again. I am working to try get that! It is very very difficult to resolve these problems unless you are prepared to throw money at the problem. Honda and P1 succeed because they can throw money at their problems! It is very crap to race one or possibly two other boats - especially when there is no real race. This year Josh was great, because he can beat me! It makes the race an actual race. There is a definate chance I can loose by being out driven. He has decided for his own reasons not to race anymore this season. There is no point in me racing the nationals this season, so the V24 series this year is watching Cliff Smith drive his boat around for an hour then claim 400 points for first place. IMO there should not be a race unless there are four boats racing. It is just not worth getting the boat wet for.

5) I dont care about crowds watching, but for some reason crowd friendly courses are becomming commonplace. I think it is due to having safety cover actually. If you build a tiny course in a bay, you can have three safety boats. Laps of 4 miles means you can see everything from a central point... Not actually what I thought it was all about! Stuff the crowds IMO. Run proper OFFSHORE races, or call the race what it is: inshore circut boat racing!

6) I am trying to organise TWO races for next year. One is a race from Minehead to Barry and back. It is 30 miles accross Cardif Bay. Not 'proper' offshore, but an interesting BASIC race. I am also planning a race from the South Coast to Deauville and back! That will be a two day BASIC race. That is what interests me, not being one of two, possibly three boats curculating around a 'spectator friendly' harbour track.

7) I would love real drivers, with real competition coming back into the sport. But if there are not rules governing what you can and cant do, then the one with the biggest chequebook wins, and that probably excludes all of us here. We will not be able to compete with the money that is out there. So rules try keep the playing field level. Now those rules need to be properly and completely enforced. IIMO too much 'blind eye' is given to rule 'stretching'.

[TimB-C]

Your comments in point 2 prove my point it is not racing it is an insult to the real racers and all the past nearly 50 years have come to this, Poor Sir Max must be spinning like a top.
Marc you are als insulting the spectators and taking the piss out of the sponsors.
And going back to a previous comment 100 dosent kill for cert you can die at 5/10 it isn't speed that kills it bad driving/stupidity/ignorance and that old chesnut COMMON SENSCE.
It's like saying a dog is bad, it isn't, it's only a bad owner.
Litaigation needs to be banned, and the WHOLE rule book re-writing.
You even mention a rule which is totaly idiotic the other day.......You had to measure you painter/tow rope to the millimetre!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Put someone with in positon of power, all be at an MP/MEP or ORC and the dream up wonderous rules to try and prove they are actually doing something not just enjoying a freebie..
Yet another, you can't sell cucumbers unless straight.......................dear god why do we let these people get away with it???????????
And yes you can stop/marshall the use of gps. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO

[verytricky]

OK, so I cant win with you. You dont explain why you disagree with my thoughts on missing a mark, and you can only say I am insulting everyone....

I will try and get things running the best I know how. I can also honestly say that I think our club has done more this year to get new boats and new drivers into the sport than anyone else. We will continue to do so and keep on at it. We will organise the two races I have previously mentioned and we will run the 'new crew' courses (one more for 2007 and two in 2008).

I think I have an idea of what should happen, and if you disagree, you need to explain how and why I have the wrong idea. Practicality has to come into it. You can not simply throw the rules, the RYA and the UIM out the window. You have to get involved and change things that are badly wrong first, and adapt or compromise on those things that you can not immediately change...

[TimB-C]

NO NO NO NO Marc you are missing the point I am talking about ofshore in general and P1 and racing around a bay and the rules put in the way of advancing and bring in more people to the sport.NOT what you are doing, please do not take things personally.
I can not and will not comment on what you are doing, but applaude you for having the dubious heart to organise races, I do not comment because I am not fully aware of what you are doing, but I do know a little about the way the sport has all but been klilled of by the likes of Dredge(spit) Lewis /Ridoout and co who ruined the sport and anyone who like Mike LLoyd and hopefully yourself stand up and get flack and grief deserves a medal.
But the rules need completely re-writing and I sincerely believe we have to go back to say 1970 and use those rules to advance the sport..
The biggest problen for me is that there are no "gentlemen " left racing who really were pioneers and had a certain class and raced for the fun of it not just for winning................The taking part

[Safety]

Before Marc and Tim decided to use this thread to rant at each other, there was a nice little bit showing just how stupid P1 organisers are. Please can we return to that.

[TimB-C]

Neither of us ranting, Safety we are discussing and at the bottom of that if you re-read you will see that we are doing exactly what you wish to retrun to.
P1 a joke, organisers,rule makers and the loosers are the sport, spectators,competitors and all the wonderful people who have given up their week-end at Cowes to support this farce............................
where is the rant?

[verytricky]

Rant here-->





I am going to move this 'discussion' onto a seperate thread. Then safety can continue his rant about P1 and we can continue our rant about the future of the sport and see if we can find areas we can actuall resolve issues....

New discussion here:
http://boatmad.com/forum/showthread.php?p=114676

[TimB-C]

good idea...