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16-05-2006, 12:02 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Country: Spain
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,726
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Bertram 38 Competition
A friend in Italy is doing some research on numerous old classic racers and needs to know more about the following:-
Ted Toleman Bertram - (Peter S/Carlsberg) - what was it before (Natural Light?Benihana?) and what became of it, where is it now etc.
Dog Gone - previously Visions of Guernsey. Same as above (believed to be the last ever 38 racer ever made). Where now etc???
Thanks for any info received.
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16-05-2006, 01:05 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,891
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A 38' Bertram has recently gone over to europe, Gordon McMath has some details I think.
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16-05-2006, 01:09 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Country: USA & UK
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The old Toleman Group is now in Germany
The old Dog Gone is in Portugal
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16-05-2006, 01:48 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Country: England
Location: Cowes, Isle of Wight
Occupation: Marine engineer/electrician
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The new Dog Gone might be doing the Cancer Charities Race!
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16-05-2006, 03:00 PM
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#5
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
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Think Tolmans was the Ex Benihana purley on the grounds that was the one Smitty Smith throttled
have a look on http://www.historicraceboats.com for more info that would be a good place to post the question
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16-05-2006, 06:48 PM
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#6
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
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FlapJack
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16-05-2006, 06:49 PM
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#7
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
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Natural Lite No9
looking at the deck screen lines I reckon it's still Rocky Akoi's one which apart from paint was how it looked when it first came over.
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16-05-2006, 08:28 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Country: UK
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Thomas in Germany has one of the bertrams I have put a link below to the cigarette he has for sale check out the third photo you will see the bertram on the back of his truck.
http://www.boatshop24.com/web/en/suc...nzahlgesamt=65
Jason
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16-05-2006, 09:29 PM
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#9
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Registered User
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Bertram History
It was built in 1974 and Preston Henn was its first owner,it was called Bertram 49er,he then sold it to Howard Quam who renamed it Flapjack.Ted toleman bought it and named it Toleman Group-Peter Stuyvesant-Carlsberg, it was under this last name that it raced in 1986 and came 3rd in the CTC.He also used it to set a cross channel record with "Smitty" throttling, this was shown on a tv program hosted by Noel Edmunds.Alan Clark then bought it from Toleman and used it loads,even overtaking "Aviator" whilst airborne !! Alan then decided to strip the "420"s and rebuild them back to the original horsepower.Myself and Alan used it to spectate at Cowes about 5 years ago and I have some great memories of us charging (responsibly) around the solent.One rumour i was told and im sure PJC will be able to confirm or deny this and the other info i have posted,was that back in the days when shaving the skegs off to increase max speed was fashionable, the boat hooked and an unfortunate passengers neck was snapped as a result of the hook!! PJC is this true ?
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16-05-2006, 10:07 PM
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#10
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
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So Flapjack it was then. Lovley looking boat hope it lives on
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16-05-2006, 10:29 PM
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#12
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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And don't fkkn outbid me, OK!
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17-05-2006, 08:08 AM
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#13
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Registered User
Country: Spain
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The mystery solved! Thanks chaps. Any further updates anyone wishes to add gratefully received.
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17-05-2006, 08:11 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Country: Spain
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p.s. Is it me or was the 38 Competition one of the most beautiful designs ever? Yes it was wide, yes it was slow by todays standards, but boy oh boy, what a stunning looking machine.
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17-05-2006, 08:37 AM
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#15
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BananaShark Member
Country: UK
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maxim Gibson
The new Dog Gone might be doing the Cancer Charities Race!
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I was in Tony Hamiltons workshop on Monday looking at the new boat - just a few finishing touches and the boat will be ready, he really wants to do the Cancer Charities race - the sound of twin Lambos again!
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17-05-2006, 01:20 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Country: Italy
Location: Viareggio
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The Toleman Group(1980)-Peter Stuyvesant(1982)?-Carlsberg(1983)? was one of the Flap Jacks of Howard Quam but not the first,former Bertram 49er of Preston Henn,because it was badly damaged in the Benihana race in 1978.
In 1979 Quam buy a second Bertram and renamed Flap Jack again.
Then Mr. Toleman bought it from Quam to race the 1980 offshore season.
I don't know was Bertram 38' is the white of Thomas in Germany,but it have the same inscription "Bertram 38' Competition" like that of the first 38' of history,the boat of Sammy James in 1973-74.
We don't see better the boat in Germany but I think it was the former 38' of Toleman.
At least I think that Mr.Toleman have had two Bertram 38'.
The first,former Flap Jack,1980's Toleman Group.
Then he bought the former Benihana from Rocky Aoki and renamed it Peter Stuyvesant in 1982,then Carsberg in 1983.
This last maybe is the Bertram 38' of Thomas in Germany.
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17-05-2006, 01:23 PM
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#17
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
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errr will sombody give Ted a bell & clear this one up
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17-05-2006, 01:33 PM
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#18
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
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The 38 that went to Germany a few months back, is definitely the old Ted Toleman boat. it sat in Southampton for many years, under the name 'Ocean Thunder' as Gordon has already said.
As Nige says, very sexy shape!
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17-05-2006, 01:51 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
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Remember seeing Pangare Gringo racing many years ago!
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17-05-2006, 02:04 PM
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#20
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Registered User
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Sorry,but Gordon said nothing about the Bertram 38 in Germany.
Gordon wrote that the Toleman Group was the former Bertram 49 er-Flap Jack and I answer that I think is not true.
I'm not in a "bell"....
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