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11-05-2007, 09:28 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Weston Super Mare
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weston Super Mare
Posts: 6,351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppiesBalls
I dont understand,
why go to the huge expense to make only 1 boat then destroy the tooling?
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because thats what the customer wanted, I believe the customer paid for the development thus he owned the molds and not Steve, I could be wrong though
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11-05-2007, 09:40 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,891
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Correct, more or less.
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11-05-2007, 09:45 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Boat make: Phantom 23
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,693
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Does the plug still exist anywhere?
isnt that splashing then if you mould the 31?
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11-05-2007, 10:14 PM
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#24
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppiesBalls
Does the plug still exist anywhere?
isnt that splashing then if you mould the 31?
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No, no plug, or mould exists for the 31, and it's not a stretched 28, it came two years before the 28, and is a unique design.
Yes, technically I suppose, but the term 'splashing' is used to describe someone who takes an unauthorised copy of someones design/work, usually to make money for themselves, and no intention of aquiring permision to do so, or paying any royalties.
When I first found Warlord, I was already talking to Steve, and the original customer who commisioned the design & build about aquiring the necessary permissions, so, a copy, yes, and illegal splash, no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamF
Jon would it not be sensible to let someone build them under some form of license assuming agreement can be sought from the designer ?
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What exactly do you mean by 'sensible'?
I thought I made it fairly clear earlier in the thread, I have no intention of producing these for people, and even less intension of anyone else producing them for people, beit legaly, or ilegally!
There's no money in low volume boatbuilding (at least not high standard boat building) and far too many potential splashers out there to risk this one going down the usual road. Sad but true.
For a 31 with nice rigging, decent construction, high end fitout, and a pair of motors/drives befitting it's design, there'd be no change from at least 150k retail, I don't know a single person that would pay that sum for a 'Big Speed Boat', which is all this kind of boat really is.
In no time at all, a shabby cheap 'home finish' option would appear from a third world shit hole for 12 pounds fifty, and we'd have gone full circle, again!
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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11-05-2007, 10:21 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Boat make: Phantom 23
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller
Yes, technically I suppose, but the term 'splashing' is used to describe someone who takes an unauthorised copy of someones design/work, usually to make money for themselves, and no intention of aquiring permision to do so, or paying any royalties.
When I first found Warlord, I was already talking to Steve, and the original customer who commisioned the design & build about aquiring the necessary permisions, so, a copy, yes, and illegal splash, no.
I thought I made it fairly clear earlier in the thread, I have no intention of producing these for people, and even less intension of anyone else producing them for people, beit legally, or illegally!
There's no money in low volume boatbuilding (at least not high standard boat building) and far too many potential splashers out there to risk this one going down the usual road. Sad but true.
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All sounds good
Well I say bring back Phantom!!!!
Would it be possible to build Phantom's legally even though Trio, Phantom u.k have the legit moulds?
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11-05-2007, 10:24 PM
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#26
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppiesBalls
Would it be possible to build Phantom's legally even though Trio, Phantom u.k have the legit moulds?
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No. Unless you buy the moulds/rights from Trio, or Clive Jones, or can do a deal to produce them under licence from them.
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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11-05-2007, 10:29 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Boat make: Phantom 23
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,693
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So other than being the father of phantom, sb has no control or rights to them?
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11-05-2007, 10:34 PM
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#28
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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No, not since they were sold (the moulds & rights), and he closed down.
But in truth, he never did, as C*audron, Raffshite, etc, have proved. That is why I will ensure the 31 will not get copied, by not letting anyone get hold of one.
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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11-05-2007, 10:37 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Boat make: Phantom 23
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,693
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have you got any more info of the build+construction of the 31?
and pics of it being made
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11-05-2007, 10:43 PM
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#30
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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No pics of construction, but it's a full kevlar deck (not Aramat) and I would reckon, pretty light (there's feck all in it) some Balsa, but not loads.
It's going to get a completely revised deck, more along the lines of a late 21. (soft rounded edges etc) with the screen moved aft, reducing the cockpit size a bit, but increasing the foredeck length.
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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12-05-2007, 12:10 AM
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#31
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Registered User
Boat make: Phantom 23
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller
No pics of construction, but it's full kevlar (not Aramat) and I would reckon, pretty light (there's feck all in it) some Balsa, but not loads.
It's going to get a completely revised deck, more along the lines of a late 21. (soft rounded edges etc) with the screen moved aft, reducing the cockpit size a bit, but increasing the foredeck length.
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Cant wait to see the finished artical!
Either way congratulations on your new purchase I imagine your well chuffed!
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12-05-2007, 07:38 AM
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#32
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
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possible powerplants......................
HP 850 SCI or 700 possibly
EU 662 but you dont need the RCD
#6 DSSM.
Twins or keeping with a big single
Where abouts was it located JF seems to be in very good nick.
Finally lets not forget Mrs F for letting you have 2, I'd have mine cutoff if I arrived with another project.
__________________
It is impossible to lick your elbow.
Team25Racing.com
At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their elbow!
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12-05-2007, 12:05 PM
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#33
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Member
Country: UK
Location: Shepperton
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom
Engines: ---
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Shepperton
Posts: 37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluFin
Finally lets not forget Mrs F for letting you have 2, I'd have mine cutoff if I arrived with another project.
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How do you know he hasn't!!!
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Angela
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12-05-2007, 12:42 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Country: UK
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,237
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How's Jon's Obsessive Compulsive disorder therapy going Angela?
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12-05-2007, 12:56 PM
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#35
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The Doc
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs F
How do you know he hasn't!!!
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well, we all know how difficult they'd be to find ................. perhaps you just dont have that level of dedication
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12-05-2007, 09:33 PM
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#36
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Registered User
Country: uk
Location: liverpool
Interests: sailing ribing
Boat name: llyn raider
Boat make: 7m xs rib
Engines: 200 merc opti
Cruising area: n wales
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: liverpool
Posts: 215
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thats a lovely looking boat. it seems to ride effortlesly through the big swell and chop in the video how well did it do in the racing?
__________________
I have a short attention span, So i need at least two projects/basket cases at all times
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13-05-2007, 09:06 AM
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#37
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Registered User
Country: England
Location: Southampton
Occupation: Electromechanical Engineer
Interests: Bikes, boats and engines etc.
Boat make: Cobra RIB
Engines: Mercury Optimax
Cruising area: Solent
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southampton
Posts: 252
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That looks like a spanking boat JF, deeply envious.
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13-05-2007, 09:21 AM
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#38
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Registered User
Location: redhill
Occupation: data manager
Boat name: salamis
Boat make: cheetah (not that cat thing), Invicta Jupiter 5.0
Engines: I/B VP
Cruising area: littlehampton
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: redhill
Posts: 283
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The 31 sure looks like the ultimate Phantom, and to find it in such good condition too, not a basket case.
You must be very excited about this project and constructing the genuin copy not some bookleg lookalike. Any ideas on the name you will give the new boat WARLORD 11 maybe?
When I looked in at Drivers Wharf the other week I saw a mould that looked a bit like a Phantom with an inboard look as no outboard well. Is this anything to do with you John?
__________________
A lot of money is tainted: 'Taint yours, and 'taint mine.
Rob (Salamis)
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13-05-2007, 10:22 AM
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#39
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Registered User
Country: England
Location: Essex
Boat make: Now Boatless
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Essex
Posts: 14
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"Phantom 31"
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13-05-2007, 11:21 AM
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#40
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Registered User
Country: UK
Occupation: dog breeder
Interests: boats, cars,film.f1 and anitques/paintings
Boat name: tba
Cruising area: south coast France and med
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,062
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Want to be the first paying member JF?????????
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