Round Ireland Race

[motorvator]

Originally Posted by FLYING FISH

So Harwich might be testing for navigators.Think yourself lucky your`e not handed the attached to wrestle with.Shove that through the RYA letterbox and wait for the response.

Pah only 15 legs.

Love the crossing over though, someone must have had a scalextric kit as a lad.

[dowdy]

Originally Posted by FLYING FISH

So Harwich might be testing for navigators.Think yourself lucky your`e not handed the attached to wrestle with.Shove that through the RYA letterbox and wait for the response.

Simple,swig half a dozen barley wines and a bottle of Yates finest,you wont be far off.

[Barrie Williams]

Originally Posted by FLYING FISH

So Harwich might be testing for navigators.Think yourself lucky your`e not handed the attached to wrestle with.Shove that through the RYA letterbox and wait for the response.

At a glance, it's interesting that a couple of marks become both port and starboard on different laps? I wouldn't have relished being on the protest, or any other, jury. Was anybody hurt?

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

Kerry, you never cease to amaze me with your pointed spite towards Cookee! I reckon they'll do just fine. Leave em alone.

Oi leave me out of this!

Barrie that's great news and although we won't be ready this year I hope this event will be around for years to come and we will be able to attend in the future.

[FLYING FISH]

Here is the race report Barrie.Note the last paragraph.

[Mark Wildey]

Originally Posted by Tremlett 15

going by this 16 ???

http://www.aroundireland.org/team.php

but going by this thread 7 > 8 ???

The only thing for sure is that the website is wrong. Until recently you could see three different counts for the number of entries. I guess the budget for the website designers was small!

[Mike Lloyd]

So, the Round Ireland Marathon Race takes place this Saturday. Why is there such a lack of information coming out from the organisers? Also, which boats are actually taking part?

Will there be a film made of the race and how can we track those taking part?
ML.
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[southwesthotcat]

My tuppence .... regarding the Marathon Rules ....

Too many uncomprehensible classes ...

And the strange weight per metre rule does favour the cheque book racers with longer boats at the top end of the length range.
The formula for weights is unpure - based on a linear 'per metre' scale, with a big range (e.g. 24 to 50 foot) as the reality is cuboid not linear. To put it in perspective ... means a 21 foot Phantom would have to weigh over 2.5 tonnes!!!!!

And what was wrong with the old fashioned cubic inch engine size based ratings with two divisions if necessary - Out of the box 'Sports' and the Souped up 'Open' classes? Easy to monitor and straightforward.

And bring back the 'Index of Performance' Prize - it's very GREEN.

Gotta go now ... and fill my fenders with water ready for weighing as the engine cooling divert is not operating properly!

[FLYING FISH]

That non linear wt theory sounds logical,but not quite as simple as that.

An example.

I know from my own data that if you take LOA x Max Beam x Mean Depth of hull you get for example 50 cub metres = 1 tonnes and 250 cub metres = 5 tonnes (general construction wt,not necessarily raceboat),which follows the cube rule.

Then you look at machy and fit out and it doesn`t follow the same rule,and this wt can be 50% of a lightship boat wt.

Not only that,but if you increase a boats length you don`t automatically increase the beam and depth by the same ratio, if at all.

All the above just highlights the old problem of,the more you break down the parameters to formulate the rules,the more problems it creates.Like it or not you will never statisfy all situations,so then you think,why not make it fairly basic and understandable,it won`t suit everybody,but then it rarely does,but at least youv`e satified one parameter,easy to understand and just a nominal 4 classes.

[FLYING FISH]

I know it can be irritating to drag up the past,but attached is how old school did it.

Note it even includes a rib,but look at the range it covers, and it would be amusing to see how that lot would look broken into todays classes.

No doubt,if websites were around then,there would probably have been another load of cut and thrust debating it,and maybe that`s the root of all the problems.

[FLYING FISH]

You talk about index of performance.Why think in terms of changing rules to incorporate.Keep the basic classes and hand out another prize accordingly.
Look at some of the past prizes.

Ist diesel boat
1st petrol boat
1st All British
1st Historic

etc,etc.

Incorporating all the parameters within the prizegiving,would surely dampen the need for hacking the rules about,and keep things simple,when deciding which boat to go for.

I would have thought the main incentive is to participate in the challenge and have something to come away with at the end of it.

[Mike Lloyd]

Originally Posted by FLYING FISH

You talk about index of performance.Why think in terms of changing rules to incorporate.Keep the basic classes and hand out another prize accordingly.
Look at some of the past prizes.

Ist diesel boat
1st petrol boat
1st All British
1st Historic

etc,etc.

Incorporating all the parameters within the prizegiving,would surely dampen the need for hacking the rules about,and keep things simple,when deciding which boat to go for.

I would have thought the main incentive is to participate in the challenge and have something to come away with at the end of it.

Like this you mean? http://www.cowes2010.co.uk/trophies.htm

Trouble is FF, it's tough enough now trying to get the necessary monies together to run a race with mininum trophies let alone go further, in my limited experience it always comes down to money at the end of the day and also keeping everything simple helps, making the rules complicated simply confuses.

However, back to Ireland, I don't seem to be getting an answer on the Ireland race from anyone with only three days to go. Obviously no one cares.
ML.
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[FLYING FISH]

What you say Mike re the cost of trophies is quite correct,and it`s a right old game balancing all aspects,it`s almost like saying we know the more we try to satisfy everyone,the more the cost will go up,one way or another,so if you want a series to survive in this day and age on a relatively limited budget,we can`t take into account all the different factors.

At least this debate is begining to highlight just what we are dealing with ,so there is better understanding of why boat x can`t be considered or the rules have got loopholes.It doesn`t make it right that what we have have is the be all end all,just that it`s an attempt to try to encompass most parameters.

I wonder just how much difference there would be in cost of trophies and less classes in 1970,compared to more classes and less trophies in 2010.

[FLYING FISH]

Is there really a Round Ireland race?This thread has literally hammered the rules to death in the meantime,with no response to update what`s happening,or is it so grim.

When you get a situation like this it, makes you realize what a great job Mike/Ciao did to keep us all advised.

[Jon Fuller]

Point taken, but who in their right mind would enter a 24' boat in A class Marathon? (or even a 21 if your example were actualy allowed)

Keep it real.

Originally Posted by southwesthotcat

My tuppence .... regarding the Marathon Rules ....

Too many uncomprehensible classes ...

And the strange weight per metre rule does favour the cheque book racers with longer boats at the top end of the length range.
The formula for weights is unpure - based on a linear 'per metre' scale, with a big range (e.g. 24 to 50 foot) as the reality is cuboid not linear. To put it in perspective ... means a 21 foot Phantom would have to weigh over 2.5 tonnes!!!!!

And what was wrong with the old fashioned cubic inch engine size based ratings with two divisions if necessary - Out of the box 'Sports' and the Souped up 'Open' classes? Easy to monitor and straightforward.

And bring back the 'Index of Performance' Prize - it's very GREEN.

Gotta go now ... and fill my fenders with water ready for weighing as the engine cooling divert is not operating properly!

[warbah]

I think you are the one who needs to get real..................it is your "mistake" going to the UIM which is destroying the sport and your rules are not helping either.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

Point taken, but who in their right mind would enter a 24' boat in A class Marathon? (or even a 21 if your example were actualy allowed)

Keep it real.

And following on from that, the minimum length for A class is 37', not 24'.

So a 37 footer will need to weigh 4600kg. I don't think that's a way off the mark figure, considering that boats in this class could have triple, or quad instals. If you go to the max length, you will need to weigh 6250kg. A 50 footer with triples, or quads is very unlikely to weigh that little. I think it would be more likely to weigh upwards of 7000kg.

Also consider that if someone chose to run a 40 footer in A class, with a pair of 1000+hp Sterling blower motors (perfectly feasable within the current rules) 4600kg would be a very reasonable figure, and still show a good sprint speed (vs the high rough water ability of the larger, but slower boats). also bear in mind that Sterling will hapilly build you 1500hp blower motors that fall within the supercharged capacity limits of A class. Suddenly 4600kg doesn't sound all that heavy at all.

Tim Brand-Cromby, go away. One spiteful, disruptive and ill informed post every six months is neither helpful, nor welcome.

[motorvator]

Originally Posted by warbah

I think you are the one who needs to get real..................it is your "mistake" going to the UIM which is destroying the sport and your rules are not helping either.

Of course you need to make comparisons to fully understand that. Any chance of a CV from you for the last three years showing your wonderful contribution to the sport

[Mike Lloyd]

Originally Posted by warbah

I think you are the one who needs to get real..................it is your "mistake" going to the UIM which is destroying the sport and your rules are not helping either.

What is your problem? Marathon racing produces bigger fleets than any other class in this country, 47 boats in RB08, 20 plus at Cowes last year and probably the biggest fleet ever for many a long year at Cowes this year so something must be working right for that to happen.

Think back a few years, what did we have then racing the equivalent of Marathon – nothing.

This constant agro regarding the Class Classification Rules is rubbish. Let it alone and let the sport continue to grow - which it will given half a chance.
ML.
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[TomLinley]

To give you guys an update, I am now out here with the boat finishing off our last testing today. About 8 boats have turned up so far. But mostly RIBs. The P1 super stock guys have arrived and are setting up also. I will try and give a running update each night and upload some footage as well.

Cheers Tom